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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cleaner charging up to £45 an hour!

130 replies

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 20:33

Regular MNuser but NC for this...

Need perspective, and also interested from anyone else who lives in a flat. I bought my flat in 2021. The building is a coming up to 18 years old. There are 5 floors and 20 flats in total.

Overall, the building is in very good condition, as it's generally treated well by people who live / visit here, and is well maintained, although this comes at a cost, hence my AIBU?

Our service charges are approx £2000 per flat per year, and I've recently (November) had the latest annual statement sent to me. On the breakdown of costs, the cleaning for the interior of the building comes in at £2340, which I work out to be £45 per flat per week. I hadn't given this any thought on previous years, probably because it seemed OK when compared to all the other expenses we have, and probably because the building never looks dirty, so I figured someone must be doing something - and I word that very carefully, in as much as I am not saying "you can tell when the cleaner has been", I am saying "it always looks clean, from one day to the next".

Anyway, it never occurred to me that the cleaner we have works for himself. I just assumed he probably worked for a company or an agency or whatever. But I was chatting to him in passing recently, and it cropped up in conversation that he is not an employee of anyone.

So here's my AIBU - I think what we pay for the cleaning would be fair if it was a company who sent staff, but I think it's a lot for someone who works for themselves. Added to which, I can see from my window (I WFH most days) when he arrives and leaves, and sometimes it's only an hour or just over! I queried this with the management company, and they said he (the cleaner) does not charge an hourly rate, he charges a fixed price per calendar month to turn up once a week to "maintain" (their words) the building. They say that the amount of time he takes to clean is at his discretion as he is trusted to keep on top of the cleaning schedule, and that some times he might be on site for several hours (I have never seen this, although with there being five floors there is no knowing where he is when he's here!).

I asked them what they do to make sure we are paying a fair price, and they admitted that it's been a long time since anyone else quoted for the cleaning, but said to me they hire loads of other cleaning companies for other buildings they manage, and "consider" (again their words) that the price would likely go up if anyone else was to take it over. Added to this, they said the cleaner tests the fire alarm and emergency lights which is something they say they could not trust most of their sub-contractors to do, as they don't always send the same people to clean and can't rely on them to do it properly. They said if they swapped cleaners then we'd have to pay separately for a member of the management company to come out each week to do the tests. I am not sure I believe any of that, but hey. They also said our cleaner is exceptionally reliable and very well liked by them and residents in my building and other buildings he cleans for them.

I have spoken to some of the neighbours about it to gauge opinion, which isn't easy as about half of the flats are rented, so the tenants don't care as they don't have to pay the service charges, their landlords do. However, there is one lady who has lived here since the flats were built, and until now she was always quite friendly with me, but when I mentioned this situation she became incredibly defensive (I didn't know until she told me, but she also pays the cleaner to do work in her flat from time to time and clearly thinks the sun shines out of his bum-hole), saying that he'd been cleaning the building for at least 12 years to the best of her memory, and that before then they'd had all sorts of problems with the building not being cleaned properly or regularly, and said there's no way she wants to go through all that again. She practically closed her front door in my face after this!

But I still can't get over how much our cleaner gets paid every week and I think the management company isn't doing enough to ensure we pay as little as possible. AIBU?

OP posts:
Tagyoureit · 30/12/2024 21:51

Your maths isn't mathing and you've now got yourself in to a state thinking the cleaner, who you actually don't have any complaints about apart from "he's well liked", is earning too much because he is "sometimes" there for only 1 hour!

Get a grip and stop spying on the cleaner!

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 30/12/2024 21:55

You've also got to factor in travel and fuel
Time

WinterFoxes · 30/12/2024 22:02

What's wrong with him earning £45 per visit? Some weeks it's more than an hour. Every week he has to travel to and from the flats. Commutes are absorbable if you only do one a day but if you are travelling between sites several times a day, then travel time snd costs need to be paid for. He's reliable and good at his job. You'd complain far more if he left and some useless agency took over.

Nc546888 · 30/12/2024 22:05

YABu

YourWildAmberSloth · 30/12/2024 22:10

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 20:53

But how can an hour be enough???

It clearly is, otherwise you would be complaining that it isn't clean. Honestly, I think you are getting worked up over nothing. £45 a week and the building always looks clean? What exactly are you complaining about? It sounds like some kind of snobbery to me. You have no problem paying it if the money is going to a big company/agency, but object to a lowly self-employed cleaner getting it. I'm the opposite. I would prefer the money goes to the person actually doing the dirty work, and not the wealthy agency owners.

saraclara · 30/12/2024 22:12

Why do you care?

Oftenaddled · 30/12/2024 22:16

Cosyblankets · 30/12/2024 21:32

She says in OP she sees him arriving and leaving and it's about an hour

She says in the same post that she didn't know until now that he also cleans for her neighbour, inside the flat.

So she doesn't actually know how often he comes, which means there is really no point in her timing him!

poemsandwine · 30/12/2024 22:17

Good cleaners are like gold dust. Why rock the boat?!

Thepurplepig · 30/12/2024 22:18

You really need to get over this before you fall out with everybody and the neighbours start to cross the street to avoid you.

Ablondiebutagoody · 30/12/2024 22:21

Imagine getting on your high horse, ranting and raving about the expense of the cleaning and adjitating for the cleaner to lose their contract when in reality it's super cheap, the place is always clean and you can't do simple maths.

YellowDiamondsInTheSky · 30/12/2024 22:22

£45 per visit is very reasonable and you come across as very unpleasant by claiming that’s too much for a cleaner. Guessing you think a cleaner should be paid peanuts?

WhatIDoIsEnough · 30/12/2024 22:22

Seems reasonable. Especially as self employed, probably buys all his own cleaning products. Uses his own equipment

poemsandwine · 30/12/2024 22:22

Thepurplepig · 30/12/2024 22:18

You really need to get over this before you fall out with everybody and the neighbours start to cross the street to avoid you.

She should listen to the neighbour who were there when the place wasn't clean. This smacks of 'cleaners should be grateful for any wage'. Not a good look.

PondWarrior · 30/12/2024 22:25

FOJN · 30/12/2024 20:40

Why would it be OK to pay the same amount of money to an agency.

You're bothered because you think someone who is "just" a cleaner shouldn't earn a decent wage.

The communal areas are kept clean, you should be happy that it's being maintained to a good standard.

Yeah this logic is completely backwards to me. Why would you be ok with paying the same amount for the exact same service if there was a middle man making money for not really doing anything?

MerrilyOnhigh · 30/12/2024 22:31

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:37

I think a lot of it comes down to the place not getting that dirty. Apart from the entrance hall, there's barely a spot on the floors, and virtually no dust anywhere. It's a very modern building, and my flat doesn't get dusty so I know the communal areas are never that bad to start with.

That seems pretty naive, with every respect, OP. No building which has a lot of people coming and going is impervious to dirt. There are presumably around 40 people minimum using those corridors and staircases every day plus their visitors and tradespeople, some will be bringing in prams, bikes, scooters, wheelie shoppers and suitcases, children putting dirty fingers on the walls, occasional spillages, paint chipping etc.

Oftenaddled · 30/12/2024 22:31

Have you looked at how much it would cost to contract for the fire safety checks separately?

It's not cheap (and there's no reason to assume he does the associated paperwork and procurement on site).

MerrilyOnhigh · 30/12/2024 22:38

Cosyblankets · 30/12/2024 21:32

She says in OP she sees him arriving and leaving and it's about an hour

No, she says that "sometimes" it's on hour or just over.

I would be sceptical that she sees everything anyway, if she's WFH and doing her job properly. I sit by my window when I WFH, and there are long stretches of time when I'm on the phone, in meetings or just concentrating hard on my work when I have no idea what is going on outside - to say nothing of times when I'm away from the window making a cup of tea or going to the loo.

BigMingeEnergy · 30/12/2024 22:47

You're a bit of a busy body ain't ya

AlohaRose · 30/12/2024 22:48

We could do a right to manage as we meet all the conditions, but I don't think anyone is interested.

Well, why don't you arrange a meeting and put yourself forward as a director?

LarkinAboot · 30/12/2024 22:55

Your maths stinks as does your attitude to small businesses.

Why should he earn any less that a larger company.

(I appreciate jokey tone don't come access well in text )but sorry OP YABI and he deserves a raise

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 22:57

AlohaRose · 30/12/2024 22:48

We could do a right to manage as we meet all the conditions, but I don't think anyone is interested.

Well, why don't you arrange a meeting and put yourself forward as a director?

I have floated the idea, but in order for it to even begin I need the commitment of at least 50% of the leaseholders, and as I said, roughly half of the the 20 flats are rented. I have no idea who the leaseholders are in those cases, or how to get hold of them, and of those who live here in the flats they own, I have had no interest from them. I do think this could be a problem as I don't think the management company represent us very well.

OP posts:
Ablondiebutagoody · 30/12/2024 23:01

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 22:57

I have floated the idea, but in order for it to even begin I need the commitment of at least 50% of the leaseholders, and as I said, roughly half of the the 20 flats are rented. I have no idea who the leaseholders are in those cases, or how to get hold of them, and of those who live here in the flats they own, I have had no interest from them. I do think this could be a problem as I don't think the management company represent us very well.

No interest from anyone in the building? This just keeps getting better.

DahliaRose3 · 30/12/2024 23:06

OP given your neighbour said the area was dirty previously, and your building is clean you should leave it at that. It’s coming across as very petty and mean to be complaining about less than £3 a week. Ultimately the cleaner is doing his job well, and it sounds like you are resentful of their hourly rate.

If you don’t want to pay service charge you should move to a house.

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 23:07

Ablondiebutagoody · 30/12/2024 23:01

No interest from anyone in the building? This just keeps getting better.

Well it's a big undertaking, and we'd need to form a limited company, plus there's the time needed to run it. The consensus seems to be that people would rather pay to have all this done and not get involved, but if ever there's an issue in the future which we have to fight for, there's not a lot we can do as individuals. We have no say over any of the work that is done or how much it costs, things just get done and we are billed for it afterwards without knowing if the price was fair or competitive.

OP posts:
Timetoread · 30/12/2024 23:10

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:05

It is the "well liked" thing that bothers me, almost as if because he makes life easy for the management company they don't want to be challenged.

I think you underestimate the value if a good trustworthy worker who knows what they are doing and does it well