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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cleaner charging up to £45 an hour!

130 replies

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 20:33

Regular MNuser but NC for this...

Need perspective, and also interested from anyone else who lives in a flat. I bought my flat in 2021. The building is a coming up to 18 years old. There are 5 floors and 20 flats in total.

Overall, the building is in very good condition, as it's generally treated well by people who live / visit here, and is well maintained, although this comes at a cost, hence my AIBU?

Our service charges are approx £2000 per flat per year, and I've recently (November) had the latest annual statement sent to me. On the breakdown of costs, the cleaning for the interior of the building comes in at £2340, which I work out to be £45 per flat per week. I hadn't given this any thought on previous years, probably because it seemed OK when compared to all the other expenses we have, and probably because the building never looks dirty, so I figured someone must be doing something - and I word that very carefully, in as much as I am not saying "you can tell when the cleaner has been", I am saying "it always looks clean, from one day to the next".

Anyway, it never occurred to me that the cleaner we have works for himself. I just assumed he probably worked for a company or an agency or whatever. But I was chatting to him in passing recently, and it cropped up in conversation that he is not an employee of anyone.

So here's my AIBU - I think what we pay for the cleaning would be fair if it was a company who sent staff, but I think it's a lot for someone who works for themselves. Added to which, I can see from my window (I WFH most days) when he arrives and leaves, and sometimes it's only an hour or just over! I queried this with the management company, and they said he (the cleaner) does not charge an hourly rate, he charges a fixed price per calendar month to turn up once a week to "maintain" (their words) the building. They say that the amount of time he takes to clean is at his discretion as he is trusted to keep on top of the cleaning schedule, and that some times he might be on site for several hours (I have never seen this, although with there being five floors there is no knowing where he is when he's here!).

I asked them what they do to make sure we are paying a fair price, and they admitted that it's been a long time since anyone else quoted for the cleaning, but said to me they hire loads of other cleaning companies for other buildings they manage, and "consider" (again their words) that the price would likely go up if anyone else was to take it over. Added to this, they said the cleaner tests the fire alarm and emergency lights which is something they say they could not trust most of their sub-contractors to do, as they don't always send the same people to clean and can't rely on them to do it properly. They said if they swapped cleaners then we'd have to pay separately for a member of the management company to come out each week to do the tests. I am not sure I believe any of that, but hey. They also said our cleaner is exceptionally reliable and very well liked by them and residents in my building and other buildings he cleans for them.

I have spoken to some of the neighbours about it to gauge opinion, which isn't easy as about half of the flats are rented, so the tenants don't care as they don't have to pay the service charges, their landlords do. However, there is one lady who has lived here since the flats were built, and until now she was always quite friendly with me, but when I mentioned this situation she became incredibly defensive (I didn't know until she told me, but she also pays the cleaner to do work in her flat from time to time and clearly thinks the sun shines out of his bum-hole), saying that he'd been cleaning the building for at least 12 years to the best of her memory, and that before then they'd had all sorts of problems with the building not being cleaned properly or regularly, and said there's no way she wants to go through all that again. She practically closed her front door in my face after this!

But I still can't get over how much our cleaner gets paid every week and I think the management company isn't doing enough to ensure we pay as little as possible. AIBU?

OP posts:
Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:23

BillStickersWillBeProsocuted · 30/12/2024 21:21

Are you sure he's getting £45 per hour? I assume you pay a managing agent, then they pay him? They'll be making a profit somewhere along the line - even if they list their charges separately on the invoice it wouldn't surprise me if they have mark ups on other services

They are legally not allowed to do that. Each subcontractor submits an invoice and the whole amount is paid by us. The management get their fees from us as a separate payment. However, that's not to say they aren't getting backhanders from the subcontractors. I hadn't thought of that before.

OP posts:
Cosyblankets · 30/12/2024 21:24

Shouldbeworkingnotreadingtalk · 30/12/2024 20:55

But it's not £45 an hour. He has to get in between various jobs, pay insurance, pay for a vehicle, cleaning materials, his pension, national Insurnace, an allowance for 26 days holiday pay - and if he worked at the flats 40 hours a week, yep - you'd have a point .. but totally reasonable for a "visit" to be £45.
You are being VVVVv unreasonable.

This is no different to other cleaners though and they don't charge 45 an hour!
OP I'm with you with regard to the service charge. They don't shop round. The management company are spending other people's money. They don't care. If people don't question it it carries on. We've had a nightmare with ours.

Oftenaddled · 30/12/2024 21:27

Cosyblankets · 30/12/2024 21:24

This is no different to other cleaners though and they don't charge 45 an hour!
OP I'm with you with regard to the service charge. They don't shop round. The management company are spending other people's money. They don't care. If people don't question it it carries on. We've had a nightmare with ours.

We don't know this is his hourly rate though. The OP has never noticed the time he spends at her neighbour's house cleaning. She doesn't know how often he comes. She could ask these questions and about getting the bins cleaned if she wanted to.

A trustworthy regular and reliable cleaner is quite an asset to throw away on this kind of speculation.

AlohaRose · 30/12/2024 21:29

We only have the OP's word for it that the cleaner is charging £45 an hour, in reality she doesn't know how long he spends in the building each week. Frankly, if he is managing to keep the communal areas of a five storey building clean on an hour a week then he's welcome to the £45 I think!

OP, if you are so concerned about this cost then why not ask the directors of your building to raise it formally with the managing agents?

femfemlicious · 30/12/2024 21:30

You are being really ridiculous. You have a lot of time on your hands it seems to go asking everyone about the cleaner. Let it go!

Gymmum82 · 30/12/2024 21:31

There is no way he’s cleaning a 5 floor building to a decent standard (which you yourself say it is) in 1 hour a week. Not a chance. Either you are grossly underestimating how long he is there for or else he is some sort of super human. Either way he deserves paying what he’s getting. I couldn’t even Hoover 5 stories in 1 hour. I agree with the neighbour. Leave the man alone

Merryoldgoat · 30/12/2024 21:31

He has to include insurance, cleaning equipment, tax and NI, pension, dead time either side as he can’t work then. Plus fuel etc.

You are seriously whinging about £2.25 per week per flat?

You need a hobby.

Basketballhoop · 30/12/2024 21:32

'sometimes' it is only an hour or just over. How often is 'sometimes'? And how often are you nosing at this man coming and going doing his job. How often do you miss him arriving, or leaving, or entire visits that you are unaware of. Be very sure that you have absolutely all of the facts before you start down this route.
If he also does jobs for a neighbour, you do not know how many of the short visits are to her flat. You don't know if he is sometimes there when you are not etc.

Cosyblankets · 30/12/2024 21:32

Oftenaddled · 30/12/2024 21:27

We don't know this is his hourly rate though. The OP has never noticed the time he spends at her neighbour's house cleaning. She doesn't know how often he comes. She could ask these questions and about getting the bins cleaned if she wanted to.

A trustworthy regular and reliable cleaner is quite an asset to throw away on this kind of speculation.

She says in OP she sees him arriving and leaving and it's about an hour

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:34

AlohaRose · 30/12/2024 21:29

We only have the OP's word for it that the cleaner is charging £45 an hour, in reality she doesn't know how long he spends in the building each week. Frankly, if he is managing to keep the communal areas of a five storey building clean on an hour a week then he's welcome to the £45 I think!

OP, if you are so concerned about this cost then why not ask the directors of your building to raise it formally with the managing agents?

Well we don't have any directors, which is another thing I am not happy about, because when I lived in a flat before, we had directors who had exercised the "right to manage" and they would deal with the management company when we were not happy. Here, the right to manage has not been taken advantage of, it's just a management company appointed by the freeholder, who we have to pay for. We could do a right to manage as we meet all the conditions, but I don't think anyone is interested.

OP posts:
IhadaStripeyDeckchair · 30/12/2024 21:34

Your maths is totally wrong

£2340 pa over 50 weeks is £46.80/week which is £2.34 per flat.

That's pretty reasonable, especially as it includes fire alarm checks.

I can't see how you would get it cheaper; YABU

GrettaGreen · 30/12/2024 21:36

So are you wanting this man sacked? Despite him doing a good job and being reliable?

Moveoverdarlin · 30/12/2024 21:36

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 20:50

Please see my previous message where I said I made an error. What I mean is that every week we (all 20 of us) are charged £45 collectively, that is to say £2340 divided by 52 is £45, and sometimes he's only here for an hour.

Edited

I think £45 is sod all. What would you charge for turning up to a block of flats, hoovering, dusting skirting boards, cleaning windows, doors, polishing banisters. There’s 20 flats so it must be a relatively big building. This time of year the floors must be dirty. And you say it always looks clean. I have no idea what you’re moaning about.

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:37

Gymmum82 · 30/12/2024 21:31

There is no way he’s cleaning a 5 floor building to a decent standard (which you yourself say it is) in 1 hour a week. Not a chance. Either you are grossly underestimating how long he is there for or else he is some sort of super human. Either way he deserves paying what he’s getting. I couldn’t even Hoover 5 stories in 1 hour. I agree with the neighbour. Leave the man alone

I think a lot of it comes down to the place not getting that dirty. Apart from the entrance hall, there's barely a spot on the floors, and virtually no dust anywhere. It's a very modern building, and my flat doesn't get dusty so I know the communal areas are never that bad to start with.

OP posts:
TwinklyStarlight · 30/12/2024 21:39

I think £45 per week, split 20 ways, sounds pretty reasonable.

All the communal areas and stairs on 5 floors is a good area of floor, walked mainly in outdoor shoes. I would not pick this battle.

Thelnebriati · 30/12/2024 21:39

No one will thank you for creating an issue over this. I don't know why you are so invested in proving something is wrong.

Moveoverdarlin · 30/12/2024 21:39

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:37

I think a lot of it comes down to the place not getting that dirty. Apart from the entrance hall, there's barely a spot on the floors, and virtually no dust anywhere. It's a very modern building, and my flat doesn't get dusty so I know the communal areas are never that bad to start with.

One might argue it doesn’t get that dirty because this bloke is on top of the cleaning. An hour a week will make all the difference long term.

Gymmum82 · 30/12/2024 21:40

Aanothernamechanger · 30/12/2024 21:37

I think a lot of it comes down to the place not getting that dirty. Apart from the entrance hall, there's barely a spot on the floors, and virtually no dust anywhere. It's a very modern building, and my flat doesn't get dusty so I know the communal areas are never that bad to start with.

20 people traipsing up and down the stairs every day in outside shoes. That floor is getting dirty whether you think it is or not. I only have 4 people in my household and my floors are filthy constantly

WeylandYutani · 30/12/2024 21:41

Moveoverdarlin · 30/12/2024 21:36

I think £45 is sod all. What would you charge for turning up to a block of flats, hoovering, dusting skirting boards, cleaning windows, doors, polishing banisters. There’s 20 flats so it must be a relatively big building. This time of year the floors must be dirty. And you say it always looks clean. I have no idea what you’re moaning about.

Also, checking the lights. I used to clean communal areas in flats, and checking and changing lightbulbs was part of it too.

Londonrach1 · 30/12/2024 21:41

Yabu. What about petrol to get to place of work, time taken to get there. Tbh £45 is cheap and sounds like they doing a good job and are reliable . If self employed you don't have sick pay, pension and have to pay for own insurance etc.

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/12/2024 21:41

OP you can ask to see copies of the invoices if it bothers you so much.

Take it from someone who is a director of a management company, a reliable cleaner is like gold dust, hang on to him. We pay ours a similar rate and as well as cleaning the communal areas - he tests the fire alarm, tidies the bin area, sweeps the external entrances, reports any minor maintenance issues and will sort any one off issues. He's great.

MaggieBsBoat · 30/12/2024 21:42

I originally thought YANBU based on the calculation of £45 x 20 flats per week for what is essentially routine maintenance.
£45 approx per week for everyone in total is absolutely fine.

hereandthere72 · 30/12/2024 21:44

Ultimately op what would you like to happen? Are you unhappy/unable to afford the £2.25 a week? Do you want it reduced? Do you want him to be paid hourly on a certain rate? Do you want a company to take over possibly charge more but pay their staff less but they would drag it out longer? Him stay longer? Are there Jobs that you think he should be doing in this time? Just curious about how you think it should pan out?

Stepfordian · 30/12/2024 21:45

If he’s reliable and does a good job then I think I’d just suck it up, you might find it’s not worth his while to come out to do it for any less than he’s currently being paid, an of course as he’s not working a set amount of hours it means if someone makes a right mess in the shared areas he’d work until the job was done.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 30/12/2024 21:50

I think that 45 per week is excellent value for 20 households to have the communal areas always clean.