Cleaner charging up to £45 an hour!

[Aanothernamechanger]

Regular MNuser but NC for this...

Need perspective, and also interested from anyone else who lives in a flat. I bought my flat in 2021. The building is a coming up to 18 years old. There are 5 floors and 20 flats in total.

Overall, the building is in very good condition, as it's generally treated well by people who live / visit here, and is well maintained, although this comes at a cost, hence my AIBU?

Our service charges are approx £2000 per flat per year, and I've recently (November) had the latest annual statement sent to me. On the breakdown of costs, the cleaning for the interior of the building comes in at £2340, which I work out to be £45 per flat per week. I hadn't given this any thought on previous years, probably because it seemed OK when compared to all the other expenses we have, and probably because the building never looks dirty, so I figured someone must be doing something - and I word that very carefully, in as much as I am not saying "you can tell when the cleaner has been", I am saying "it always looks clean, from one day to the next".

Anyway, it never occurred to me that the cleaner we have works for himself. I just assumed he probably worked for a company or an agency or whatever. But I was chatting to him in passing recently, and it cropped up in conversation that he is not an employee of anyone.

So here's my AIBU - I think what we pay for the cleaning would be fair if it was a company who sent staff, but I think it's a lot for someone who works for themselves. Added to which, I can see from my window (I WFH most days) when he arrives and leaves, and sometimes it's only an hour or just over! I queried this with the management company, and they said he (the cleaner) does not charge an hourly rate, he charges a fixed price per calendar month to turn up once a week to "maintain" (their words) the building. They say that the amount of time he takes to clean is at his discretion as he is trusted to keep on top of the cleaning schedule, and that some times he might be on site for several hours (I have never seen this, although with there being five floors there is no knowing where he is when he's here!).

I asked them what they do to make sure we are paying a fair price, and they admitted that it's been a long time since anyone else quoted for the cleaning, but said to me they hire loads of other cleaning companies for other buildings they manage, and "consider" (again their words) that the price would likely go up if anyone else was to take it over. Added to this, they said the cleaner tests the fire alarm and emergency lights which is something they say they could not trust most of their sub-contractors to do, as they don't always send the same people to clean and can't rely on them to do it properly. They said if they swapped cleaners then we'd have to pay separately for a member of the management company to come out each week to do the tests. I am not sure I believe any of that, but hey. They also said our cleaner is exceptionally reliable and very well liked by them and residents in my building and other buildings he cleans for them.

I have spoken to some of the neighbours about it to gauge opinion, which isn't easy as about half of the flats are rented, so the tenants don't care as they don't have to pay the service charges, their landlords do. However, there is one lady who has lived here since the flats were built, and until now she was always quite friendly with me, but when I mentioned this situation she became incredibly defensive (I didn't know until she told me, but she also pays the cleaner to do work in her flat from time to time and clearly thinks the sun shines out of his bum-hole), saying that he'd been cleaning the building for at least 12 years to the best of her memory, and that before then they'd had all sorts of problems with the building not being cleaned properly or regularly, and said there's no way she wants to go through all that again. She practically closed her front door in my face after this!

But I still can't get over how much our cleaner gets paid every week and I think the management company isn't doing enough to ensure we pay as little as possible. AIBU?

Presumably his own insurance as well.

Because he keeps on top of things.

Remember that there is also a risk for him, if one week there is a dreadful mess he has to spend more time at no extra cost because it is a flat rate.

Why do you think he's only there an hour?

there might be a quiet week that happens but not often.

our cleaners have dealt with things like maggots in the bin room without charging extra. They turn up and do what needs doing. They're fab.

sounds like yours does a good job.

we had some residents complain about the cost of gardening. Mgmt agent told them to go ahead and research alternatives. They couldn't find anything cheaper.

some people really underestimate how much this stuff costs. Sounds like you might be one of them.

I bet he also does deep cleaning, carpet shampoo, disinfecting bins etc.

Are you familiar with the phrase 'pay for the years, not the hours'?

This is somebody reliable, good at their job, well-liked and trustworthy who has been in place a long time. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.

This is like one of those threads where someone begrudges a cup of tea in a cafe being £3 when a teabag is only 20p.
He won’t be getting £45/hr.
You are paying £2.25/wk.

We have to pay for the carpets to be cleaned although that's only been done once since I lived here, and it isn't the cleaner who does it. Also there are no bins for him to look after as they are on the car park and maintained by the council. Funny you mention the bins as they are not cleaned at all by the looks of it.

It is the "well liked" thing that bothers me, almost as if because he makes life easy for the management company they don't want to be challenged.

Who cares, you say its clean and stays clean, why would you give a damn how he does it?

Maybe he runs around like a lunatic to do it. It hardly matters how long it takes him and you cannot possibly see him every single time he turns up, maybe he comes back after dark to do more, maybe he really manages it in an hour.

Op, you are embarrassing yourself. Please stop. You think this cleaner is below you and you have deemed him not worthy of his salary. Lots of people have pointed out all of his overheads and it is clear he it not earning mega money. I actually think you’re quite pathetic with how much you seem to spy on this cleaner, who by the sounds of it, is doing his job well.

YABU

Sorry but obviously I'm being dense here? I do a similar job and working out your figure it equates to £2.25 per flat per week? So £117 a year per flat? And the guy does a good job? No complaints? Two of us do pretty much the same for probably a bit more! It still is only about £25 a week each. We charge a flat rate regardless of if we are an hour or 2. It takes as long as it takes. If you keep on top of it it's fine. Sometimes more needs doing so it takes longer. We also have to take into consideration insurance, products and travel. Good, reliable cleaners are hard to find! If you moan and lose this one you might end up paying more and not getting the service you are getting now.

He makes life easy for the management company because he is reliable, good at his job, undertakes additional tasks like the fire alarm testing etc. You are beyond unreasonable with your complaints about this cost. Also, unless you are glued to your window every minute of the day I don't see how you can possibly know how much time he is spending in the building each week. If your building of 20 flats on several floors is always clean and presentable then that is worth far more than £45 a week. Why do you not believe the management company when they tell you that anyone else would be more expensive? If it genuinely only takes an hour per visit you will most likely find that most companies aren't even interested in taking on the job or will have a minimum cost per visit, which would be rather higher than what you are paying at the moment! I own three flats in different buildings so trust me, this is not a hill you want to die on.

You sound horribly jealous...

Because in your (misinformed I think) opinion, this man gets £45 for an hour or less work per week.

You're not seeing all he does, if the place is staying clean then he is absolutely doing more than an hours work some weeks.

You also don't see his overheads, you don't know if he is supplying things himself, don't see his travel costs, insurance etc etc.

The fact you say its clean and well maintained and that you wouldn't mind if it were a payment to an agency who sent out staff pretty much proves this (you'd rather there were more people, earning less money, for the same job!). I think you need to get a grip!

I used to clean communal areas in blocks of flats. It was mind-numbingly dull, and you always had someone moan about something.
In some places, there were no sockets for the hoover, so you had to knock on doors and hope someone was kind enough to let you use one.

People cleaning those areas will have to have their own equipment and transport. The costs add up.

Reliable cleaners are a nightmare to find.

You might get cheaper but you'd find they don't turn up half the time and you spend bloody hours chasing it all.

If your block of flats has a reliable cleaner who does checks etc as well for a flat rate O really really would be very happy about it.

Fuck all to do with you, maybe they appreciate his work ethic, maybe hes on call for other stuff you dont know about. On call requires more money. And frankly you sound jealous. If you think it's so great being a cleaner of flats and earning less than 3k a year per block, why dont you go try it.

You said yourself it looks clean. This cleaning is costing you personally £2.25 a week.Even if they managed to half the cost, you’d save only just over a quid a week, with no guarantees they would do a good job, and you’d need to pay someone to do the alarm and elight testing on top. Is it really worth giving it headspace?

Eh, you tell us. You're the one who said it always looks clean. Sounds like they do a cracking job and I'd be surprised if it is only an hour every week. Different needs each week I imagine

OP, you offer to do it for £20 if it makes you happy

It's hardly an obscene amount. Reliability and honesty are important qualities. Partly you are paying for this.

Yep we had a quote from someone who worked the same way. Was very evasive about anything regarding how long they would work for or expect to spend cleaning. When I did the maths it worked out at £100 an hour to clean a small 3 bed terrace, 2 adults no pets.

If they won't give an hourly rate or estimate of hours it's a scam.

Are you sure he's getting £45 per hour? I assume you pay a managing agent, then they pay him? They'll be making a profit somewhere along the line - even if they list their charges separately on the invoice it wouldn't surprise me if they have mark ups on other services

But do bear in mind that you'll need to provide your own cleaning cloths, materials and heavy duty vacuum cleaner. Also, you'll need to pay tax, NI and cover your insurance premiums out of that amount. Thankfully you won't need to own a business use vehicle, although as £20 per week is hardly going to keep you alive maybe you will need to clean some other buildings as well in which case you can add on your vehicle and transport costs.

He will be paying various insurance, cleaning equipment and may havevto wait for his monthly invoice to be paid. I doubt if you would get it much cheaper if renegotiated. Most cleaning companies are overpaid. The most important thing is he does the job.

You need to accept that you don't really know what hours he works. If you didn't notice the time he spends in your neighbour's house cleaning, why do you think you are fully informed on how he spends his time?