Page 6 | To wonder how this is legal and what can be done to prevent it

NautilusLionfish · 31/12/2024 13:11

CeceliaImrie · 31/12/2024 12:24

If their god says it's ok, for them it is.

I wonder how easy it is for them to leave and return to their home country if they change their minds. 🤔

If the British God says its OK for British men to marry younger women of all sorts of races and faiths, then for them it's OK.
I wonder how easy it is for those women to leave their British husbands.

FFS!!!

BlueSilverCats · 31/12/2024 13:46

@NautilusLionfish and let's not forget that the American God, particularly in some states allows child marriage . Youngest was 12 I believe .

NautilusLionfish · 31/12/2024 14:01

BlueSilverCats · 31/12/2024 13:46

@NautilusLionfish and let's not forget that the American God, particularly in some states allows child marriage . Youngest was 12 I believe .

Indeed!

Allergictoironing · 31/12/2024 17:43

The age of this man seems to be increasing by every page of this thread! He was late 20's when she was 17, then he's 30 the second she's turned 18, now someone is suggesting 35! And all the comments about a "much older man", I don't really consider 10 years as THAT much older, not in the "dirty old man" context this statement seem to be implying.

Her parents know his family well, according to the OP. Meeting up with & falling in love with your parent's friend's son doesn't always mean there's been grooming going on, I understand it's not uncommon at all to meet future partners through family & friends!

I still feel this outrage smacks of racism through & through, with a bit of snobbery thrown in for good measure.

PoctorDepper · 31/12/2024 17:53

Allergictoironing · 31/12/2024 17:43

The age of this man seems to be increasing by every page of this thread! He was late 20's when she was 17, then he's 30 the second she's turned 18, now someone is suggesting 35! And all the comments about a "much older man", I don't really consider 10 years as THAT much older, not in the "dirty old man" context this statement seem to be implying.

Her parents know his family well, according to the OP. Meeting up with & falling in love with your parent's friend's son doesn't always mean there's been grooming going on, I understand it's not uncommon at all to meet future partners through family & friends!

I still feel this outrage smacks of racism through & through, with a bit of snobbery thrown in for good measure.

I didn't suggest any of the men mentioned in OP's post were 35. I mentioned an age gap that I personally think is problematic.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 31/12/2024 18:07

My DD almost ran off with a Texan to Texas. Met him at Uni aged 18, converted to his religion, thought he was “the one”, lived together for 2yrs….but she didn’t want to move to Texas (abortion ban and gun crime and racism), didn’t want to give up Uni and her career (he wanted a SAHM and lots of kids right away, a very trad wife set up). I am very thankful she decided to stick to her dreams, let him go and is now over the heartbreak. The decision took months and months of me talking with her without interfering in her relationship.

I don’t think anyone is “grooming” anyone. I think it’s just harder for an 18yr old to think with their heads instead of their hearts. It’s a lack of wisdom that can only come with time.

Elsvieta · 31/12/2024 18:56

If she's 18 she's an adult and she can choose to emigrate and to marry. Age of consent is 16 in the UK so if she'd been having consensual sex with him at 17 (in the UK) that would have been legal too. "Grooming" can only really be applied to those who are under 16 (or older people with disabilities which mean they don't really have the capacity to consent to sex). I have no problem understanding why her parents are distraught, but it's not illegal and nor should it be. If she's happy and has done everything of her own free will, there's nothing they can do.

BlueSilverCats · 31/12/2024 18:59

Elsvieta · 31/12/2024 18:56

If she's 18 she's an adult and she can choose to emigrate and to marry. Age of consent is 16 in the UK so if she'd been having consensual sex with him at 17 (in the UK) that would have been legal too. "Grooming" can only really be applied to those who are under 16 (or older people with disabilities which mean they don't really have the capacity to consent to sex). I have no problem understanding why her parents are distraught, but it's not illegal and nor should it be. If she's happy and has done everything of her own free will, there's nothing they can do.

Wrong on the grooming.

Grooming is when a person builds a relationship with a child, young person or an adult who's at risk so they can abuse them and manipulate them into doing things.

OneBadKitty · 31/12/2024 20:00

BlueSilverCats · 31/12/2024 18:59

Wrong on the grooming.

Grooming is when a person builds a relationship with a child, young person or an adult who's at risk so they can abuse them and manipulate them into doing things.

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But how do you define 'at risk?' Grooming now seems to be a term used to describe any relationship between two people where others think it's a bit inappropriate whether it was consensual or not including any age gap, cultural difference, class difference etc.

CeceliaImrie · 02/01/2025 13:14

@NautilusLionfish

British god? Who's that then? 🧐

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/01/2025 13:31

Problems in this sort of situation may arise later, if the relationship for whatever reason turns sour. Typically (unless laws have changed) the wife will have zero legal rights over any children. If she e.g. wanted to return to the U.K. she would almost certainly have to leave them behind.

Who else has read ‘Not Without My Daughter’? - a true story on this theme, only the country was Iran.

Relatives of dh who worked in Iran in (IIRC) the 1950s, did once smuggle a friend in this situation, and her children, over the border in their car. A very risky enterprise, but they were lucky.

NautilusLionfish · 02/01/2025 13:48

CeceliaImrie · 02/01/2025 13:14

@NautilusLionfish

British god? Who's that then? 🧐

Could be anything and anyone. Pub landlord, fish and chips, a pint, someone in the sky, even Liz Truss. Whatever Brits in their diversity feel like designating god at any point in time

NautilusLionfish · 02/01/2025 13:54

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/01/2025 13:31

Problems in this sort of situation may arise later, if the relationship for whatever reason turns sour. Typically (unless laws have changed) the wife will have zero legal rights over any children. If she e.g. wanted to return to the U.K. she would almost certainly have to leave them behind.

Who else has read ‘Not Without My Daughter’? - a true story on this theme, only the country was Iran.

Relatives of dh who worked in Iran in (IIRC) the 1950s, did once smuggle a friend in this situation, and her children, over the border in their car. A very risky enterprise, but they were lucky.

I read this as a teenager and remember it vividly. I still don't see how it is illegal for an 18 year old to move there with her partner of choice. Or how "we" can stop it. That is the issue. Is it risky when the relationship turns sour or the two of them decide to be prodemocracy activities? Yes. Could they live happily forever after? Yes. Should we make it illegal for 18 year olds or other consenting legal adults of sound mind to move out of the UK with their partners? Well we would probably need a referendum or at least a parliamentary debate then change of legislation. For now, we simply wish them well and her parents should keep trying to keep an open communication line.

BlueSilverCats · 02/01/2025 14:21

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/01/2025 13:31

Problems in this sort of situation may arise later, if the relationship for whatever reason turns sour. Typically (unless laws have changed) the wife will have zero legal rights over any children. If she e.g. wanted to return to the U.K. she would almost certainly have to leave them behind.

Who else has read ‘Not Without My Daughter’? - a true story on this theme, only the country was Iran.

Relatives of dh who worked in Iran in (IIRC) the 1950s, did once smuggle a friend in this situation, and her children, over the border in their car. A very risky enterprise, but they were lucky.

So what should be done? Practically/legally?

Ban 18yos from marrying? From travelling abroad? Ban it only when it comes to certain destinations ?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/01/2025 17:25

BlueSilverCats · 02/01/2025 14:21

So what should be done? Practically/legally?

Ban 18yos from marrying? From travelling abroad? Ban it only when it comes to certain destinations ?

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Obviously none of those measures would be possible in the U.K, and I can’t imagine any laws being passed to enable them. Not under our current political system, anyway.

InterIgnis · 02/01/2025 17:29

The law isn’t there to protect people from every bad decision they could possibly make.

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:32

Fawnly · 30/12/2024 17:26

Over the last few weeks I’ve heard 3 separate stories of young British girls, moving to the Middle East, getting married, changing religion and having children with men who are older.
One was on here and it seems it ended in abuse.

One of the others has really disturbed me, this girl started a relationship with a doctor from Qatar who was late 20s when she was 17!! As soon as she turned 18 she started getting the documents needed to move. 6 weeks after turning 18 she has moved to Qatar, married just weeks after that (had to change religion first). Then almost immediately conceived a child. Her parents (who are my friends), haven’t been able to visit as she refuses to let them. She now has 2 children, totally distant from her family etc.

Another was similar but the UAE.

AIBU to wonder how this is legal? Why are these countries letting 30 year old men marry teenagers who they have just moved 4000 miles from home!

I have teenagers and I’m beside myself at the thought of this happening to them!

How and why does this happen? How can it be prevented?

You cannot prevent people who are of legal age getting married. Never mind moving countries to marry.

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:33

ShadowsOfTheDays · 30/12/2024 17:33

They don't want to do anything about it though. It's acceptable in their culture I guess.

It’s also acceptable in the UK. Nobody stands in the way of an 18 year old marrying.

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:36

AngelinaFibres · 31/12/2024 10:56

Given that women are generally treated as second class citizens in these cultures and they think nothing of beheading criminals I doubt they give much of a thought to older men marrying teens. I believe they are allowed up to 4 wives.

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It is also perfectly legal in the UK for a man in his late 20s to marry an 18 year old.

And much as I disagree with the death penalty, lots of countries have it.

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:39

But seriously OP what would you have done?

Ban over 18s from moving overseas?
Ban Britons from marrying foreigners?
Have the British government negotiate trade deals that require consent of the British government before a foreigner can marry a British adult?

I am not sure what you think can be done. Unfortunately the government can not prevent adults from every single ill advised decision they may wish to make.

Wordau · 02/01/2025 17:42

fuuwan · 30/12/2024 19:17

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done because an 18 year old is an adult and can make their own decisions.
Any 18 year old can move to any country they like (as long as they meet the visa requirements), they can convert to any religion they like and they can marry anyone they like.

However, in cases like this, there's usually some sort of reason why the teenager was vulnerable to this kind of thing. Just because the teenager in question comes from a wealthy family and is at boarding school doesn't mean they aren't vulnerable. Perhaps there were issues with her family and she wanted to escape, or she saw no future for herself in Britain, or she was inexperienced with relationships - no boys her own age had paid her any attention before, or she was searching for something, like some kind of spirituality or inner peace and felt that converting to his religion and marrying him could bring her that.

These men can sense that vulnerability and act on it. They aren't going to waste time on other girls who can't be manipulated like that. I do believe it's manipulative and deliberate, but as I said above, legally nothing can be done.

The only thing parents can do is to create an atmosphere/relationship with their children where they can talk openly with each other, without criticizing each other, where they trust each other and listen to each other. Easier said than done with teenagers of course.

This is a great answer.

The parents must be devastated but need to look at the relationship they fostered with their child.

Stillshepersisted · 02/01/2025 17:43

Fawnly · 30/12/2024 18:03

It’s odd, her parents claim they are very close to his family and she has other friends who are in similar situations.

2 times the country in question is Qatar once UAE.
With everything else I’ve heard about Qatar I can’t figure out why anyone would want to go!

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I’m white, British, an ardent feminist and I live in Qatar. Have done for a number of years. I’m professional and have a great job and lifestyle here. It’s an incredibly safe country and I’m treated incredibly well as a woman here. I can go anywhere on my own, at night, leave my door and my car unlocked. Men will ask if I mind them entering a lift that I’m in on my own. I am honestly sick to the back teeth of people back in the UK who usually haven’t set foot anywhere in the Middle East never mind Qatar and who have blithely accepted all the absolute nonsense written in the press about Qatar. Your entire post stinks of Islamophobia and prejudice. Qataris here rarely marry outside of their own nationality - in fact they need special permission to do so because there are only around 300,000 of them and they are very keen to protect their identity and culture. There’s more to your story than you are letting on and I find it utterly bizarre that you think white Christian women who are legally adults should be stopped by some legal mechanism marrying specifically Muslim Arab men in other countries. Are you ok?

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:46

WednesburyUnreasonable · 30/12/2024 17:59

Half Arab here - to clarify, my parents are normal people who met at university, I can’t personally relate to any of this.

It’s not actually particularly normal or socially acceptable for men in the Gulf to marry barely-adult foreigners they’ve met online. It’s weird, and most families won’t love it.

That said, you always get weirdos and if both people are adults and immigration allows it, there’s not much you can do to stop these scenarios. It’s not that uncommon to encounter white middle class women who have converted to Islam and want to go full trad in a very intense way, whether that’s in the UK or abroad. There seems to be a few different things driving it, depending on the personalities involved, and it often doesn’t last in my experience. Good luck to your friends and maintaining a relationship with their daughter.

This. People often stereotype her.

But I read only this week that Dubai prohibits (for example) marriages where the man is twice the age of the woman without special permission being received which would not be the case in the UK.

This kind of thing will happen everywhere to some extent but when all involved are adults there is not much that can be done.

JHound · 02/01/2025 17:47

Stillshepersisted · 02/01/2025 17:43

I’m white, British, an ardent feminist and I live in Qatar. Have done for a number of years. I’m professional and have a great job and lifestyle here. It’s an incredibly safe country and I’m treated incredibly well as a woman here. I can go anywhere on my own, at night, leave my door and my car unlocked. Men will ask if I mind them entering a lift that I’m in on my own. I am honestly sick to the back teeth of people back in the UK who usually haven’t set foot anywhere in the Middle East never mind Qatar and who have blithely accepted all the absolute nonsense written in the press about Qatar. Your entire post stinks of Islamophobia and prejudice. Qataris here rarely marry outside of their own nationality - in fact they need special permission to do so because there are only around 300,000 of them and they are very keen to protect their identity and culture. There’s more to your story than you are letting on and I find it utterly bizarre that you think white Christian women who are legally adults should be stopped by some legal mechanism marrying specifically Muslim Arab men in other countries. Are you ok?

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This. 100% this.

iwishihadaname · 02/01/2025 17:51

THisbackwithavengeance · 31/12/2024 08:51

Some of you will remember when Jemima Goldsmith who was about 18 at the time married the much older Imran Khan. People thought it was romantic.

I can imagine that if you are 17 and from a middle class straight laced family and you are an archetypal "good girl" then being swept of your feet by an older handsome Arab doctor proposing marriage will be intoxicating; practically Mills&Boon.

Maybe they will be happy?

She was 21 when she married Imran khan