AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Parents being charged VAT has nothing to do with charitable status.

Sorry, I am not sure what your argument here is? How does tax-free private education help children in state schools who are struggling to get EHCPs?

Why feel anything about it - it’s in line with the rest of Europe/the world to not tax education.

Read the related posts - I was responding to a previous comment, someone else then responded, so I responded to that...context is everything 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's not a singular case. Please don't assume. I have more than one child at more than one school with an EHCP as well as previously being a governor and a volunteer at my local SEND charity.

I think perhaps you need to take your own advice regarding research rather than making misleading statements.

Will this policy benefit any working class (or otherwise deprived) kid?

Or will the "ambition to create a more equal society" only be solved by dragging everyone (except the kids of the ultra elite of course) down to the same level?

Do you improve the state of your local park by vandalising the one in the next town to match?

Housing costs might be high around major cities, but they're not everywhere.

I didn't mean singular as in single child, I meant your example of your single area.

I'm not making any misleading statements, your experience is based on your area, I'm simply stating that that isn't necessarily the norm across the country.

Why feel anything about it...interesting. You seem to have feelings about it. Why do you think parents without money for private education might have feelings different than yours?

And all children have tax-free education on offer in the UK. It's the state system.

I read your previous posts. You didn't answer that question. Thus I asked it. How does tax-free private education help state educated students needing an EHCP?

You do realise that there aren't enough places for ALL children to receive state education, don't you?! If every private school closed tomorrow, the education system would collapse, immediately.

Even if I supported the VAT, for the government to bring it in mid-school year, and without putting proper infrastructure in place first, is, quite simply spiteful and stupid, and like I said, the people that will suffer are ALL children.

Perhaps a lack of comprehension skills then?

For absolute clarity, I'll explain it in super simple steps for you.

1. A child has educational needs that are not being met in state school.
2. The family initiate the EHCP process, but it's taking a very long time, the child is becoming more distressed and can't/won't attend school.
3. The parents realise that, by making many, many sacrifices, they can just about afford to send their child to the local private school, which can meet their child's needs, without a need for an EHCP.
4. Labour add 20% tax, and suddenly that just affordable fee becomes completely unaffordable.
5. Now, above child is having to go back into the state system, which is only going to add more pressure to teachers and schools.

Get it now? Tax-free education, like in the rest of the world, provides options and arguably especially to the most vulnerable.

VAT is not going to collapse the state education system. Some students moving from private to state may have difficulty finding a place at a preferred school. Many schools have coped with influxes before - mine had to up its PAN at one point years ago, quite unexpectedly, and expand via temporary cabins and staff recruitment. Then reduce again recently as birth rates fell.

The system will need to expand in some places. Others will see little to no effect.

None of which would negatively impact existing students.

Except and this is a big except other western countries don’t have the three tier (no better or worse just three different levels) of education. Non selective state school, selective state school and private schools.

North America you go to your local school unless you pay a very large fee for private.

In Canada private schools do pay the equivalent of VAT (GST) and in the US they pay tax on the profit the school makes. So no it isn’t like the rest of the western world with these exceptions - sorry I don’t know the rest of the western world…..

IMHO the levels put into education, health and policing are the root cause of a lot of problems.

"The parents realise that, by making many, many sacrifices, they can just about afford to send their child to the local private school, which can meet their child's needs, without a need for an EHCP."

See, that's not a thing most parents could do. It's really not.

And yes the government should put more money into SEN provision at state schools. Because all children need a proper education that meets their needs.

One wonders how they might raise some money.

I think like many people on MN the many hyperbolic threads on this issue have changed my view from indifferent, to supporting the vat introduction.

Well it definitely won't be through this tax...the actual numbers leaving / not starting far exceed government calculations and so at the very best it will end up being net zero, and more likely result in increased cost.

Like I've said, people supporting it just don't have the full picture, either through choice or ignorance.

Anyway, I've spent enough time going in circles now, so goodnight.

@KatyaKat it is called disagreeing with you.

I do agree with your points.

In the majority of cases (at our school) the child didn’t have SEN diagnosed when they entered the school at age 4. These all came later. I did see the figures and a few years back our school had 20% kids with SEN and only 1 EHCP in place. In our school (at a guess) the majority of SEN is mild dyslexia.

A lot of private school parents simply aren’t aware of EHCPs or of the benefits available to their kids with SEN that are non-means tested.

I can see a lot of private school parents now pursuing EHCPs - and they’ll not be going for a few adjustments in schools.

I’m middle class. Don’t agree with taxing education.

Eh? All state schools are already charities (known as “exempt charities”) and are regulated as such, either directly by the DfE or as academies/academy trusts: see, for example:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7b935aed915d4147621457/Academies_as_exempt_charities_FINAL3.pdf

I know of a few DC who were on private schools because of SN and now all 3 have had to be put back into state sector. Their parents are worried sick they won't cope on a class of 27 instead of 12 or 13. I think the policy was pure spite. All parents want brilliant state schools but most state schools are not brilliant and lack resources, especially true for DC with SN.

Would all the posters here who support it still support it if it ends up 1. making little or no money or 2. a net loss to the taxpayer?

What you are suggesting is affording the state a special status in terms of educating children - essentially making it more difficult and implying it is somehow anti-democratic to not want state education for children.

Creating monopolies on education is the kind of thing that happens in authoritarian regimes.

There is a reason western countries don't tax education.

North America has a lot of different kinds of school set ups. And it varies a lot across NA too. Public and private aren't' the only options.

I'm not sure why you think GST is applicable to private school fees, it usually isn't.

Families that homeschool don't pay GST or HST on supplies, either.