Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we shouldn't be funding this on the NHS?

571 replies

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:29

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

OP posts:
PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 10:21

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 10:19

I have never been to a hospital where there aren't a load of smokers by the main entrance next to the no smoking signs. Try your local one.

Ah, you 're not going to reply. What a shock. Where I live smoking in hospital grounds is illegal.

taxguru · 28/12/2024 10:21

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 10:19

I have never been to a hospital where there aren't a load of smokers by the main entrance next to the no smoking signs. Try your local one.

Yup, I have to go with OH to our local main hospital several times per month (he's on chemotherapy), and there is always groups of patients smoking outside the main entry doors (on hospital grounds) with staff smoking in more hidden corners (still on hospital grounds). So, whilst they're not smoking within the hospital buildings (as it would be illegal), both staff and patients ARE smoking within their grounds.

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 10:22

taxguru · 28/12/2024 10:21

Yup, I have to go with OH to our local main hospital several times per month (he's on chemotherapy), and there is always groups of patients smoking outside the main entry doors (on hospital grounds) with staff smoking in more hidden corners (still on hospital grounds). So, whilst they're not smoking within the hospital buildings (as it would be illegal), both staff and patients ARE smoking within their grounds.

Is this in England?

thepariscrimefiles · 28/12/2024 10:22

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:56

Pulmonary embolism (blood clot in lungs). I've never smoked, have a BMI of 20, exercise regularly and eat a good diet.

I don't hate these people it's just to think that this has got to be where a good percentage of my pay check is going... it's grossly unfair. They should be covering it themselves.

Maybe I only want my taxes to be used to treat nice/kind people. Unkind, judgemental people should be covering it themselves.

Pussycat22 · 28/12/2024 10:22

CountZacular · 28/12/2024 10:15

Right, so on that basis let’s not treat smokers but equally the money cigarettes generate shouldn’t go into the NHS either. Smokers can have that money go directly into their own healthcare instead.

It would be grossly unfair for them to be paying significantly more into the system than you (cigarettes are very, heavily taxed), you get treatment but they cannot.

But THEY make that choice!!

Theextraordinaryisintheordinary · 28/12/2024 10:22

A lot of my patients with smoking related illnesses are victims themselves. Either taught to smoke by their parents before starting work aged 14/15 or working back breaking jobs where smoking was their only pleasure. Remember, it was glamourised years ago. Today cigarettes are hidden away in shops.

dragonfliesandbees · 28/12/2024 10:22

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 10:19

I have never been to a hospital where there aren't a load of smokers by the main entrance next to the no smoking signs. Try your local one.

Nice side step. I'm a nurse and we no longer have smokers by the main entrance of hospitals because smoking is banned on hospital grounds.

Please answer the question. Which hospital were you in that allowed/encouraged this?

Georgyporky · 28/12/2024 10:22

The NHS spends far more money on obesity-related diseases.

And smokers contribute far more in taxes than obese people.

Newhere5 · 28/12/2024 10:22

Coatsoff42 · 28/12/2024 09:32

Yes, like kids who skateboard and break their arm. Self inflicted.

I think all diseases ( including self inflicted ones) should be treated on NHS but comparing smoking to skateboarding is quite wrong.

Breaking your arms whilst skateboarding = accident
Getting lung cancer after smoking 20 years = predictable result of stupidity. Sorry
And I say that as a child of father who has been heavily smoking his whole life.

LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway · 28/12/2024 10:22

My DH always bangs on about this.. 'the NHS shouldn't fund ANY smoking related diseases for anyone who started smoking after 1985! People have known the damage it can cause for YEARS now.' (Because he loathes it so much!) I used to smoke (gave up in my mid 20s before I started trying for a baby,) and in some ways think 'yeah why should we fund self inflicted shit?' But where do we draw the line?

Stop funding illnesses/injuries/conditions caused by (for example....)

  1. Being fat.
  2. Extreme sports
  3. Being in a car crash if you were driving over the speed limit by more than 1 mph
  4. Cycling without a helmet.
  5. Drinking too much alcohol.
  6. Taking any kind of drug, that you get addicted to.

As I say, where do we draw the line? Option 1 would rule out the NHS paying for treatment for about a third of the population!

It's a slippery slope.

Miffylou · 28/12/2024 10:22

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:43

Doing anything which is very widely known to be harmful and can easily be avoided.

Smoking (it literally says on the packs you will get cancer if you smoke)
Obesity
Drugs
Alcohol
Extreme sports/irresponsible behaviour

Who decides which sports are "extreme" and what behaviour is "irresponsible"? You?

Which of these would you deem unworthy of free treatment?

  • injury incurred while skiing
  • injury incurred while skateboarding
  • injury incurred while roller-skating
  • injury incurred while running for a bus while wearing high heels
  • injury incurred by slipping on ice while going out in icy weather to the shops to buy a treat (or something unnecessary)
  • illness brought on by unbalanced vegan or vegetarian diet
  • illness brought in by pregnancy, which the patient had been warned could be dangerous to her
BeatrizBoniface · 28/12/2024 10:23

thepariscrimefiles · 28/12/2024 10:22

Maybe I only want my taxes to be used to treat nice/kind people. Unkind, judgemental people should be covering it themselves.

Me too. Let's make that a condition for getting NHS treatment 👍

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 10:23

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 10:22

Is this in England?

Yes, but this obviously happens everywhere in the country even at private hospitals.

OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 28/12/2024 10:23

@taxguru At the very least, those with self inflicted conditions should be put down the list behind people who equally need treatment but havn't abused themselves

That’s way too simplistic though. Many people who ‘abuse themselves’ have underlying factors that have never been addressed. Childhood abuse, dysfunction, mental health issues etc. So, you would actually be punishing them twice really, which is pretty poor.

What about people who play sports and ‘abuse themselves’. Some of mine played a (I would think fairly common) contact sport, and most games between the two teams someone would be carted off to hospital. We just leave people with broken bones and dislocations, putting them on some naughty list?

What about people like myself who is pretty much riddled with skin cancer? I’m old, older than the knowledge of sun and skin cancer. When we were kids our parents had us out in full sun (in a hot country, not UK), to burn like crisps to ‘toughen your skin up’ because ‘it’s good for you’. Sunscreen didn’t exist when I was a child. There was some useless thing called sunblock that was pure liquid and not waterproof so came off immediately with water (we all swam) or a lick of sweat, not to mention with the slightest grain of sand brushing your skin. The tv was packed with ads promoting tanning reef oils (you literally tried your skin in the sun, albeit with a nice smell of coconut), and we spent hours under tanning lamps and sun beds as there was zero link between them and cancer at the time. Should all of us oldies be told to get to buggery with our resultant skin cancer?

The whole premise of ‘fault’ is so ridiculous in healthcare, it has no place.

TMGM · 28/12/2024 10:24

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 10:17

Come on @AgileJadeDog where in the UK is this hospital that allows smoking in its grounds?

Southampton, selfish people smoking standing literally in front of the entrance doors to the children and babies A&E.

Anyone selfish enough to be smoking where children can breathe it should get a hefty fine and/or jail time, but that’s a whole different thread.

Purgepossessions2025 · 28/12/2024 10:24

Jifmicroliquid · 28/12/2024 10:20

I’m torn on this.
I used to think this way, but then I partake in a dangerous sport and have needed hospital treatment. I suppose the difference is that my sport is actually a very healthy and ‘good’ way to spend time (ie many health benefits), but there’s an inherent risk.
Whereas smoking has no health benefits at all and is not a ‘good’ or ‘healthy’ activity.

I think now that the dangers of smoking are so well known and that the warnings are out there, the NHS should have some sort of notice that they will be stopping treatment for new cases of smoking-related illness from 2035 or something. Ongoing cases will still be treated. The idea being that in say 30 years, the NHS will no longer fund smoking-related illness at all.

Risk is risk. Doesn’t matter if you perceive your risk justified because of the benefits. If we did what you propose your sport should be on the NHS list of banned activities.

ButterCrackers · 28/12/2024 10:24

Auburngal · 28/12/2024 10:20

Charge those who are receive treatment, yet carry on smoking. Seen patients on deaths door feebly clutching a cig whilst connected to a drip on a wheeled stand. This is also happens in the hospital grounds which are smoke free.

Agree. That’s a good idea. It should extend to living with smokers because of passive smoke. It’s also disgusting to walk through the smokers to get into the hospital.

taxguru · 28/12/2024 10:24

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 10:22

Is this in England?

Yes

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 28/12/2024 10:24

@AgileJadeDog and druggies!!! dont forget the druggies!!!

JudgeJ · 28/12/2024 10:24

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:29

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

I would also include other life style choices, drugs, alcohol, most addictions. No-one is born addicted to alcohol, betting, being an untidy slob etc yet they are now under the MH banner and are palmed on to the public purse.

Funnywonder · 28/12/2024 10:24

Everyone should simply stop smoking. Because it’s so easy, not being addictive or anything.

Coatsoff42 · 28/12/2024 10:25

Newhere5 · 28/12/2024 10:22

I think all diseases ( including self inflicted ones) should be treated on NHS but comparing smoking to skateboarding is quite wrong.

Breaking your arms whilst skateboarding = accident
Getting lung cancer after smoking 20 years = predictable result of stupidity. Sorry
And I say that as a child of father who has been heavily smoking his whole life.

Skateboarding is intrinsically dangerous, you know you’re going to fall off repeatedly and injure yourself. It’s an accident you know is going to happen.
You could do a less inherently dangerous hobby. It’s a choice to do such
a stupidly risky thing.
I like skateboarding, this is just for the purposes of the argument.

toomuchfaff · 28/12/2024 10:25

TMGM · 28/12/2024 10:19

I think OP means that there is really no upside to smoking, there’s no way the benefits outweighs the massive risk, with smoking you’re guaranteed to have some kind of negative effect whether small like a furry gross tongue/gross teeth, or big like cancer/death.

People saying what about exercise or driving etc is such a ridiculous comparison it’s laughable.

there's no upside to smoking - agreed.

BUT ITS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE... as is alcohol, sugar and all the other ingredients to the unhealthy lifestyle that OP thinks shouldn't be treated.

And tovacco companies plied it to people as "it's good to smoke" back when these people started smoking.

(non smoker)

Rosscameasdoody · 28/12/2024 10:26

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:37

If you're driving a car responsibly and crash or injure yourself playing tennis I think that should be covered. If it's an obesity related disease or something caused by extreme/obviously dangerous sports then I would be leaning towards the NHS not covering it.

I think my problem is that if my experience is typical it isn't a few people which are in hospital due to self inflicted stuff, it's the overwhelming majority.

I think my problem is that if my experience is typical it isn't a few people which are in hospital due to self inflicted stuff, it's the overwhelming majority.

What utter bullshit. You’ve been in hospital once and this is your conclusion ?I’ve been in and out all my life and not once have l ever concluded that while we have an NHS, we should ever leave anyone untreated because of their choices in life. Grow up.

arethereanyleftatall · 28/12/2024 10:26

It's a special hospital located under a bridge.

Indeed. The £80K tax vs the stupidity of the thought process has surely given this totally away?!?

But regardless, it's an interesting topic ti discuss.

Someone up thread has detailed the £2billion cost vs the £8billion revenue. Add to that the dying younger so reduced pension. Smokers are nett contributors!