To think we shouldn't be funding this on the NHS?

[AgileJadeDog]

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

YABU because you don’t understand the concept of the NHS. Of course we have to fund it… it’s a public health service for us, the public, we have all paid for it. Including members of the public who smoke, drink, get fat, etc.

@AgileJadeDog 'I paid £80k in tax last year'

Nice stealth boast there.

So you can obviously afford private healthcare so why should the NHS fund your treatment? I mean, if we're being ridiculous (as you are) then your wealth is self-inflicted. It must be nice being so perfect living in your Ivory tower

You want people to be left to die instead?

Would be very difficult to assess which patients are more "worthy" of priority treatment

But I agree the general population should take personal responsibility for their own health. Education is part of this. We should also promote sport and leisure pportunities for all eg social prescribing. And healthy meals in eg achools and hospitals. And better understanding of trauma and the reasons why people self medicate with drugs and alcohol. No one chooses to become alcoholic or an addict

Tell you what my dad probably paid for a few people’s NHS treatment through his years of smoking. He smoked for 65 years. Then went to the doctors with a cough aged 78. He was dead 3 weeks later. So I’m sure the 65 years of tobacco tax more than paid for a scan or two, a couple of appointments, a week in hospital and some pain meds at the end.
Was it his own fault he got lung cancer? Most likely. I’m not denying that. But he was a good man and worked from 14 until 69. He grew up without a pot to piss in. Pictures of him as a child he looks like a street urchin quite frankly. Not even wearing shoes in some photos. He had 2 siblings die in childhood from illness. That was life growing up in poverty. If he had been born now and with more money I imagine he would have made different choices.

So where are we going to draw the line?

Overweight and have related illness? Self-inflicted.

Break your leg skiing? Self-inflicted.

Cross the road without looking and get run over? Self-inflicted.

I mean, your respiratory illness, where did you pick that up? Been somewhere crowded? Allergy? I hope they did a full investigation before treating you.

Come on @AgileJadeDog where in the UK is this hospital that allows smoking in its grounds?

Alcohol consumption- even small amounts - is now known to be associated with breast cancer. So should we deny treatment there?

Shall we stop treating car accident victims because some people choose not to drive because of the risk to life?

There are still smoking areas.
@AgileJadeDog you'd be wrong about the gastro and coronary wards. I think smoking is dying out. Your tax money pays for you to live in a safe country, were we don't have people dying on our streets. We could never cut off healthcare while funding prisons and lots of other things. I never thought I'd be obese. During a serious illness my consultants told me to not worry about my weight going up. Unfortunately post viral fatigue and the menopause has made all the weight impossible to lose. It's a lack of activity and bad diet that causes issues, not just body size.

You seem to be forgetting healthcare systems are built on the principle of universal care, which means treating people no matter how they got sick.

If we start drawing lines about who "deserves" treatment, where would it end? Would we refuse care to those with obesity, sports injuries, or conditions linked to diet or alcohol consumption? Almost everyone has lifestyle habits that can negatively affect health in some way.

Secondly, smoking is an addiction, not just a choice. Many smokers begin as teenagers and nicotine is notoriously hard to quit. Lots of smokers are also from disadvantaged backgrounds where there’s less access to education and support to quit. Penalising them further is harsh and counterproductive.

Many "preventable" situations are still treated as a priority for good reason. Pregnancy is technically preventable requires medical support to ensure both physical and mental health for the mother and baby.

Abortion another technically preventable scenario are vital for the physical and mental health of pregnant women in certain circumstances. Should we deny care in these cases too?

Plus education is already prioritised in healthcare. Smoking rates have declined over the years due to public health campaigns, higher taxes on cigarettes, and smoking cessation programs.

However, for those already affected, the damage can’t always be reversed, and treatment is the only option.

Everyone deserves compassion when they’re unwell, regardless of how they got there

What is your source for your bladder cancer statistic?

Two highly responsible 2024 statistics for the link between smoking and bladder cancer are

Cancer Research UK says that ‘about half’ of bladder cancers are caused by smoking,

and

the highly respected Cleveland Clinic (USA) says that up to 65% of bladder cancers are caused by smoking.

Both serious statistics, but nothing like 98%

Exactly . I stopped nursing about 10 yrs ago and even back then the hospital grounds were non smoking and no nurse or HCA would have been wheeling people out to light up . That kind of behaviour stopped many years ago .

I have never been to a hospital where there aren't a load of smokers by the main entrance next to the no smoking signs. Try your local one.

I think OP means that there is really no upside to smoking, there’s no way the benefits outweighs the massive risk, with smoking you’re guaranteed to have some kind of negative effect whether small like a furry gross tongue/gross teeth, or big like cancer/death.

People saying what about exercise or driving etc is such a ridiculous comparison it’s laughable.

Absolutely. Let’s leave them to die - it’s their own fault.

while we’re at it, let’s do away with maternity care. It’s their own fault they’re pregnant - everyone knows sex can cause pregnancy.

and orthopaedics- loads of money to be saved there. Anyone who breaks a bone playing sport for example, completely their own fault.

i could go on….

It's a special hospital located under a bridge.

I think this is a completely heartless post. And I see you think fat people should be left to die in pain too.

Disgusting.

These purposefully obtuse replies are an attempt to show you, when you say self inflicted, where does it stop?

Who makes that decision, who makes the guidelines for the person making the decision, How much does that decision making cost? shouldn't they be put that cost toward health care rather than trying to prevent health care?

Everything can be deemed "self inflicted" when you start to apply labels, especially if that means something isn't paid out (think about all these insurance companies who try everything to not pay out)

Ok then so obesity is self inflicted so ban all treatment of illnesses caused by being fat? Drinking alcohol causes illness so ban treatment for liver disease. People in gangs who get stabbed, refuse them also? Sports injuries are the fault/responsibility of the participant so I guess they can't be treated either. What about cancers linked to lifestyle?

Respiratory disease is caused by smoking. What if the person gave up smoking twenty years ago? Or last week? What if they vape? Surely they'll just claim they don't smoke if they think they'll be refused treatment.

The NHS is there for sick people. It's not there to discriminate regarding how someone got sick in the first place.

All of my local hospitals have smoking areas, St Helens, Whiston, Royal Liverpool, Aintree. I've had to pick someone up from Manchester and there's smoking areas.

How do you feel about people with your sort of mind set needing mental health treatment because they are wedded to a world view which is the opposite of that which we know is positive for mental health? Or those affected by that attitude? They should probably get it for free as it’s not their fault if someone is selfish, whereas the person who holds that world view should be left to suffer alone because they’re capable of making positive changes.

I also don’t believe for a minute that qualified nurses took people out to smoke while they were on shift. There just aren’t enough staff to do that. I’d be surprised if anyone did given that part of the initial assessments are about smoking and NRT.

Charge those who are receive treatment, yet carry on smoking. Seen patients on deaths door feebly clutching a cig whilst connected to a drip on a wheeled stand. This is also happens in the hospital grounds which are smoke free.

I don't understand why you would be speechless. It's a statement of fact. Lung diseases in an industrial area where people have been breathing crap in at work seems pretty obvious to me.

I’m torn on this.
I used to think this way, but then I partake in a dangerous sport and have needed hospital treatment. I suppose the difference is that my sport is actually a very healthy and ‘good’ way to spend time (ie many health benefits), but there’s an inherent risk.
Whereas smoking has no health benefits at all and is not a ‘good’ or ‘healthy’ activity.

I think now that the dangers of smoking are so well known and that the warnings are out there, the NHS should have some sort of notice that they will be stopping treatment for new cases of smoking-related illness from 2035 or something. Ongoing cases will still be treated. The idea being that in say 30 years, the NHS will no longer fund smoking-related illness at all.