To think we shouldn't be funding this on the NHS?

[AgileJadeDog]

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

Treating sick people? Like obese people with heart disease? The ultra fit with a sports related injury? Substance abusers? People who just make poor lifestyle choices? Well, you'd clear the hospitals, that's for sure.

By the time the doctors had ascertained whether an illness was self inflicted or not, the patient would either be better or dead.
How do you propose to identify self inflicted illnesses? At the entrance to the hospital?

I can tell you of three, from recent personal experience.

No it doesn’t. There are clear guidelines as to what qualifies for NHS funded continuing care - the need has to be medical not social.

I kind of agree with you, but I think where would it stop? There are lots of illnesses that are sometimes caused by a bad long term practice and sometimes not. People who have never smoked sometimes get lung cancer, not everyone who smokes does get lung cancer. It therefore stands to reason that if smokers could not get lung cancer treatment while non-smokers could, some smokers who would have got lung cancer anyway would not get treated.

What about those who have tried really hard to lose weight, or not gain weight and been unsuccessful? Should they never get any help for obesity related disease, because their efforts to lose weight didn't work? What about, like above, the fact that diseases may be more frequent in overweight people, but it doesn't mean that all overweight people would have no medical conditions if they were a better weight? What about people who left their parents' care overweight, because of unhealthy diet and struggled all their lives to lose it? Or people who are physically unhealthy because or poor mental health or learning difficulties, and lack of support to help them be different?

If you could say:

• 100% of people who get X will have done Y
• It is impossible for anyone to do Y without clearly understanding the implications of it
• It is impossible for anyone to get X if they haven't done Y

Then you might be able to say everyone who gets X needs to pay for treatment, but in practice that's not ever going to be possible.

I have paid a shedload more in tax than I have ever taken back out.

I'd be much happier if my tax £ were spent on smokers but perhaps withheld from judgemental dickheads.

Hear hear. The sanctimonious judgemental dickheads can fund their own treatments, safely away from smokers and overweight people, also those with mental health problems. Win win.

Smoking is not allowed on hospital grounds anywhere in the UK. There will always be people who ignore the rules. That's not the same as the hospital allowing it. OP claims nurses were taking patients outside to smoke. I don't believe this for one second. Aside from anything else, I can't imagine a ward nurse having time to do this! Even when smoking was permitted on hospital grounds, it wouldn't have been nurses taking patients outside to smoke. We can't just leave the ward and abandon our other patients.

@dragonfliesandbees I don’t understand why you keep arguing about this. Myself and several other posters have seen NHS staff escort patients outside to have a cigarette. I’ve seen this many times. I also work for the NHS. I’m not judging the staff, nor the patients who smoke. I just don’t see what is so unbelievable about this.

YABU.

Where would you draw the line?
Those who have an accident after having a drink.
Those with sports injuries.
Those who are overweight - it isn't all to do with healthy lifestyle - some medical conditions can cause weight gain/make it harder to lose weight too.

Depending on the age of people, at one point years ago people were encouraged to smoke - it was seen as being good for you. More recently there was an encouragement towards vaping, because it was seen as less harmful than smoking, but in years to come we will have people seeing the side effects of vaping too.

It can also get to a point where it would be more harmful to the body to stop smoking than carry on - my grandfather was told that by the GP at one point - he was in his 80s and had been smoking for most of his life.

For perspective - I am a non-smoker. I have never smoked, and can't stand the smell of smoke.

If you wear sunscreen all year round then don't expect the NHS to find the illnesses you get from vitamin D deficiency!

You're talking shite.

Wow, what an unpleasant thread. Alcoholism is a disease, so is addiction. Would you also ban people who have turned to substances and ended up freezing on the streets? Or developed mental health problems? I don't envy their lives. Considering you've paid an £80k tax bill, so are presumably quite bright, you've really not thought out your argument. It's utterly reductive.

I hope you are joking with this comment... surely this is satire and you don't actually believe that!

I'm genuinely shocked if that's the case. I've seen healthcare staff do this in care homes but never in a hospital.

It's illegal to smoke in hospital grounds and my trust regularly remind us of this. There is no way staff would be permitted to take patients out to smoke.

Im on the fence. As a nurse looking after an elderly person with lung cancer and months left to live but still smoking and their only vice. Why at this stage deny them.
on the other hand, people going off the ward with cannulas in without informing staff, staff no idea they have left the ward so then have had to leave the ward to go looking for them when they are needed by other patients is not acceptable.

not to mention the one or two whom have taken leave to have a cigarette against advice of staff, signed a form and then had a cardiac arrest requiring the crash team!

I’ve been in hospitals frequently over the past year due to pregnancy and a sick family member, and would see this every single time without fail. This is in Scotland if it matters. I would imagine patients are desperate for a cigarette and it would become increasingly difficult for staff to refuse their requests. I think there should be designated smoking areas. It wasn’t ideal having to walk through clouds of cigarette smoke when I was pregnant just to get into the building.

It's frustrating but it's fairest to be free for all as where do we draw the line?

They haven't taken the smoking shelters down where I work so there are designated areas... It's just illegal to use them for their intented purpose!

I'm in Scotland too. I still see people smoking on hospital grounds (though far fewer now than before the law changed) but I never see staff taking patients outside to smoke at any of the three sites I work at.

It's not as simple as declaring things as self inflicted and therefore not worthy of treatment. Like obesity - what about those who have non self inflicted medical conditions, that make it difficult to exercise and are manger with medication that causes weight gain? What about the teenager I knew who was obese, because he had a brain tumour that damaged hormone control in his brain and his ability to manage appetite. Health is not simple, it's not black and white whether something is self inflicted or not. And if we had a system that considered this, can you imagine how my time, and money, would be wasted by staff trying to determine if something is self inflicted or not?!

And yes, you help fund the NHS through your taxes - so do obese people, smokers etc - why should they not benefit from a system they've paid into?

You should go live in America.
Or maybe you’re just trolling.

If you’re driving a car responsibly and crash

Who would determine this? What a ridiculous statement.