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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we shouldn't be funding this on the NHS?

571 replies

AgileJadeDog · 28/12/2024 09:29

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

OP posts:
Sushu · 28/12/2024 14:09

Beekeepingmum · 28/12/2024 13:27

I can't believe I live in a world where having an opinion that smoking should be discouraged, and those that do make poor choices, is considered to be vile. I must have entered the parallel world of the smokers.

Are you reading a different thread? Nobody is condoning it. We are simply saying it is immoral to refuse smokers treatment. We should, of course, strongly discourage smoking and continue to educate people on the health risks. There are consequences for being a smoker, you wouldn’t be eligible for a lung transplant, for example.

Ihearyounow · 28/12/2024 14:11

In the Netherlands they won't let people be treated with oxygen at home unless they have given up smoking for 2 years, hence all the long time smokers with COPD just die

Nanny0gg · 28/12/2024 14:13

Ihearyounow · 28/12/2024 14:11

In the Netherlands they won't let people be treated with oxygen at home unless they have given up smoking for 2 years, hence all the long time smokers with COPD just die

Wow!😢😡

IncessantNameChanger · 28/12/2024 14:14

Doseofdopamine · 28/12/2024 13:57

Interesting first post OP. You find netmums more your thing.

I'm sure these are just goady posts by journalists or possibly politicians testing the water. Surely most people see that? Or something just to keep the site more interesting? Who knows.

Re being morally superior - I don't drink now but I have when a student and could do so again, drink most people under the table. So am I superior or not as I could down 2.5 bottles of wine in my twenties in a few hours. I keep watching people on the news in their 20's getting liver failure and wondering why it didn't touch me. I didn't decide to stop drinking, I was a socail drinker and with covid, lockdown I just stopped going out and also by default drinking and got out of the habit.

Is that like being a sinner all your life and on your death bed finding Jesus? Does God say 'no, your not worthy' what's the Christian take on this I wonder? Yes everyone who finds God goes to heaven but if you smoke you deserve a painful death with no help? Of all the sins, smoking and drinking isn't up there on my of reasons to deserve to die for it. There's being a bit foolish and being purposely evil. We keep evil chid tortures and murders safe feed and warm. Hopefully they never smoked......

Doseofdopamine · 28/12/2024 14:19

@IncessantNameChanger

You're probably right. So many threads on here are.
It'll be in the daily mail tomorrow
'80% of the British public support cutting off healthcare for smokers' or some such bollocks.

MyLoftySwan · 28/12/2024 14:22

Plastictrees · 28/12/2024 13:49

Education won’t ‘fix’ addiction. Eradicating poverty and other social and health inequalities will, as that lies at the heart of the issue.

Exactly this

36% of children are now living in poverty in the UK. I imagine a lot of their caregivers are concentrating on keeping a roof over their heads. Healthy nutritious food and a warm damp free house is a pipe dream. Of course you'll have parents who don't give a rats arse the same as some affluent parents. However we wonder why we have children ending up in county lines, respiratory conditions or malnutrition in 2024.

MissMoneyFairy · 28/12/2024 14:23

Doseofdopamine · 28/12/2024 14:19

@IncessantNameChanger

You're probably right. So many threads on here are.
It'll be in the daily mail tomorrow
'80% of the British public support cutting off healthcare for smokers' or some such bollocks.

Yep, there's a few about today, funny how op knows so much about the other patients medical problems

nappysan · 28/12/2024 14:23

I’ve had some very similar experiences in hospital in recent years. I find it terrifying to see how ill people can be and they drag themselves out in the cold to smoke but hopefully it helps me try to stay on the straight and narrow and be more aware of my own lifestyle and health.

Perhaps a good way to think about it is to feel sorry for the smoker/ obese patient and try to learn from their misfortunes? Feel lucky you don’t have their life and their challenges.

In the emotionally heightened atmosphere of a hospital I have found that memories of what a mess people can get into really stay with me. I have been more careful about my own weight (not over Christmas) after seeing a very overweight lady be refused surgery in a day unit. I couldn’t help but hear about her leg ulcer that wouldn’t heal and felt so sorry for all the pain she must be suffering. Sounded so horrible and stressful for her. Thank goodness I was able to have my operation and get help before ending up in a situation like that. I find it makes me count my blessings.

Years ago I was in a hectic A and E with appendicitis on a Saturday night. The question about did I drink a lot (as part of the diagnostic process) combined with seeing a young woman vomiting blood put me off drinking for months.

No one is perfect. It isn’t fun for anyone to be sick, need an operation or be in hospital.

There but for the grace of God go I.

Pussycat22 · 28/12/2024 14:26

arethereanyleftatall · 28/12/2024 10:26

It's a special hospital located under a bridge.

Indeed. The £80K tax vs the stupidity of the thought process has surely given this totally away?!?

But regardless, it's an interesting topic ti discuss.

Someone up thread has detailed the £2billion cost vs the £8billion revenue. Add to that the dying younger so reduced pension. Smokers are nett contributors!

Genocide then ?

Dutch1e · 28/12/2024 14:27

Nanny0gg · 28/12/2024 14:13

Wow!😢😡

It's not quite like that. You can still be treated with oxygen in a hospital as a smoker, they don't just tell you to bugger off and die.

But smoking nullifies oxygen therapy anyway, and the dangers of burn injuries with at-home oxygen outweigh the non-existent benefits if a patient is still actively smoking.

sophiasnail · 28/12/2024 14:29

Would you still expect all these people to pay into the system, given that you don't expect them to be able to use the system?

Pussycat22 · 28/12/2024 14:34

But YOU made the choice to smoke! It's not a case of quid pro quo.

ThinWomansBrain · 28/12/2024 14:37

OhhYoureSpikey · 28/12/2024 09:35

Pregnancy is self inflicted, so should the NHS also stop providing antenatal care? Leave women to birth in their own homes alone?
YABU.

Inability to give birth is not self inflicted, but neither is it an illness - why fund IVF?

ObelixtheGaul · 28/12/2024 14:37

Soiltypes · 28/12/2024 13:51

see this i would disagree with "Eradicating poverty and other social and health inequalities will, as that lies at the heart of the issue."

because how many clebs, how many rich people drink, do drugs etc so to say its down to poverty or inequalities does not give reasons for this

That's a fair point. Cocaine is a good example. When I was younger, Cocaine was a 'rich people's drug'. It was incredibly expensive. Of course, today it's much cheaper, but it's still more popular with the middle class decent earners.

The truth is, we don't view the addictions of the wealthier in society in the same light. The high numbers of professional, well educated people using a drug that causes teeth to fall out, noses to collapse, heart problems, etc, won't be subjected to the kind of vitriol about ignorance and stupidity we have seen on this thread.

To be honest, I am a bit fed up with the 'stupid, thicko, poor people' type of comments on this thread, however sympathetically dressed up. Plenty of wealthy high achievers are drug and alcohol dependent. These people might be able to afford the Priory, etc, but in an emergency, it will still be the good old fashioned NHS picking up the tablets for the ambulance, resuscitation and so forth.

We don't police those with every advantage, high education, decent professions like we do the average/poor. A documentary I watched a few years ago discussed the fact that Cocaine has become the new wine for the middle-classes, with a high percentage of young professionals using it to wind down after work, etc. Those people are not only contributing to an appalling, violent, not to mention illegal industry, they are also very likely to be burdening the NHS in the future.

Wealth and success don't make bastions of healthy living, they just change the nature of the poisons used and how it is publicly perceived.

dragonfliesandbees · 28/12/2024 14:42

Nanny0gg · 28/12/2024 14:13

Wow!😢😡

Given that home oxygen is a huge fire risk this is sensible. Smokers would not be prescribed home oxygen in the UK either but I don't know whether there is a requirement to have stopped for a certain amount of time.

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 14:43

Ihearyounow · 28/12/2024 14:11

In the Netherlands they won't let people be treated with oxygen at home unless they have given up smoking for 2 years, hence all the long time smokers with COPD just die

Do you have a link to back this up? Smokers with COPD who haven't given up or gave up less than two years ago are left to die, not even treated with oxygen in hospital?

PandoraSox · 28/12/2024 14:45

dragonfliesandbees · 28/12/2024 14:42

Given that home oxygen is a huge fire risk this is sensible. Smokers would not be prescribed home oxygen in the UK either but I don't know whether there is a requirement to have stopped for a certain amount of time.

Indeed. You are not supposed to light your gas hob yourself if you are on home oxygen.I think @Ihearyounow might be mixed up about what happens in the Netherlands. I doubt smokers or recent smokers with COPD are simply left to die. But hopefully a link will be provided.

RafaistheKingofClay · 28/12/2024 14:45

dragonfliesandbees · 28/12/2024 14:42

Given that home oxygen is a huge fire risk this is sensible. Smokers would not be prescribed home oxygen in the UK either but I don't know whether there is a requirement to have stopped for a certain amount of time.

There is. And they can do random inspections of your house I think.

From what the doctors were telling the woman in the bed next to me it’s 8 weeks IIRC. Possibly you need to do an official smoking cessation course and then the 8 weeks on top.

Plastictrees · 28/12/2024 14:45

ObelixtheGaul · 28/12/2024 14:37

That's a fair point. Cocaine is a good example. When I was younger, Cocaine was a 'rich people's drug'. It was incredibly expensive. Of course, today it's much cheaper, but it's still more popular with the middle class decent earners.

The truth is, we don't view the addictions of the wealthier in society in the same light. The high numbers of professional, well educated people using a drug that causes teeth to fall out, noses to collapse, heart problems, etc, won't be subjected to the kind of vitriol about ignorance and stupidity we have seen on this thread.

To be honest, I am a bit fed up with the 'stupid, thicko, poor people' type of comments on this thread, however sympathetically dressed up. Plenty of wealthy high achievers are drug and alcohol dependent. These people might be able to afford the Priory, etc, but in an emergency, it will still be the good old fashioned NHS picking up the tablets for the ambulance, resuscitation and so forth.

We don't police those with every advantage, high education, decent professions like we do the average/poor. A documentary I watched a few years ago discussed the fact that Cocaine has become the new wine for the middle-classes, with a high percentage of young professionals using it to wind down after work, etc. Those people are not only contributing to an appalling, violent, not to mention illegal industry, they are also very likely to be burdening the NHS in the future.

Wealth and success don't make bastions of healthy living, they just change the nature of the poisons used and how it is publicly perceived.

I’ve already addressed this. Drug use and drug addiction are not synonymous. Of course it’s possible to use cocaine and not develop an addiction - most people who have ever tried recreational drugs fall into this camp.

Mental health difficulties and trauma do not discriminate, and plenty of middle class people can struggle and turn to drugs to cope, forming a dependency. Of course it is a different experience of drug dependence, compared with living in poverty as being financially secure is a privilege. Better quality illicit drugs can be bought, unlike what’s on the streets. Rehab and psychological support can be sought privately. Having an addiction does not mean you are ‘thick’, it would be ignorant to think so.

I work in NHS Addiction services and I’m very glad that we see ALL people who need support, and that we haven’t descended into box ticking for worthiness lunacy.

Gettingbysomehow · 28/12/2024 14:47

OldBird79 · 28/12/2024 13:05

I pay £39 for 50g of tobacco now. Times that by 4 a month. The majority of that money goes straight to the Government as tax. I've been smoking 30yrs and as yet touches wood have no breathing problems and have only ever needed hospital treatment for gallstones. I hope I'll be able to give up 1 day especially when it does cause health problems. But as a reasonably healthy smoker I can guarantee I've paid more than enough tax to fund any future NHS treatment from buying tobacco products in the UK

Nobody gets away with it. The last guy who said that to me came in for a double amputation last week as his feet had rotted away. It will get you. It's just a matter of time.

GretchenWienersHair · 28/12/2024 14:51

YANBU, YABVU. Who decides what’s worthy of treatment and what’s not? The government? The doctors? You? I wouldn’t want to rely on any of those odds.

Plastictrees · 28/12/2024 14:51

Gettingbysomehow · 28/12/2024 14:47

Nobody gets away with it. The last guy who said that to me came in for a double amputation last week as his feet had rotted away. It will get you. It's just a matter of time.

Another vile post - what do you hope to achieve?

I know lots of people who smoked and drank well into their 80’s with no diagnosed long term health conditions. Of course smoking massively increases the risk of developing many different diseases and conditions but it is not guaranteed. Likewise, I know people who’ve lived incredibly healthy active lives but sadly passed away in their 30’s and 40’s with stage 4 cancer.

GrouachMacbeth · 28/12/2024 14:54

How much would the NHS save if all medication which could be bought over the counter was taken of the prescription formulary?

5128gap · 28/12/2024 14:55

Very few people are wealthy enough to pay for the sort of care they need for lung diseases. So, what do you propose happens to those who can't afford it? Turn them away and let them suffer and die? Or are you thinking of charging only those who can afford to pay, and the less well off continue to get it free? Because I can guarantee that will be highly unpopular with people who have already paid more tax and NI.

NotaRealHousewife · 28/12/2024 15:00

What a load of shite , someone is at the wind up