To think we shouldn't be funding this on the NHS?

[AgileJadeDog]

I recently had my first stay in hospital due to a respiratory issue and I kid you not, every other person in the bay smoked+had a smoking related disease.

I have no idea if this is typical in other specialties/hospitals but it really hit me how much gets spent on completely self inflicted stuff. AIBU to think we shouldn't be funding stuff like this?

but in an ideal society both should be banned due to the harm they cause

I pay £39 for 50g of tobacco now. Times that by 4 a month. The majority of that money goes straight to the Government as tax. I've been smoking 30yrs and as yet touches wood have no breathing problems and have only ever needed hospital treatment for gallstones. I hope I'll be able to give up 1 day especially when it does cause health problems. But as a reasonably healthy smoker I can guarantee I've paid more than enough tax to fund any future NHS treatment from buying tobacco products in the UK

Look at your own comment as an example of judging. I’m happy to not smoke and I’ve not met a non smoker who isn’t happy to be a non smoker. Do you know any miserable non smokers saying “I’m so sad and annoyed I don’t smoke? or “ I could kick myself because I never started smoking” I don’t know any!

God you sound horrible.

Ah, indeed, the perennial problem of the undeserving poor.

One affliction can be considered a misfortune, but multiple afflictions can only be ascribed to carelessness.

I agree. And absolutely you can eat well, cheaply after the initial outlays - e.g. buying a slow cooker, spices, etc. There needs to be more free education and courses, less mass consumption of UPF’s and more focus on local produce. Lots of people are living hand to mouth though, and when you’re in crisis mode it is just about eating whatever to get you through. As always I live in hope things can change for the better, at some point.

Which posts have pitied and enabled those who smoke?

Have a read through the thread to answer your question.

The line is usually drawn by the person who is making moral judgments. I imagine people who think we should restrict some things but are pro utilising the NHS for pregnancy and birth including all the aftercare probably used the NHS for this purpose. Its all selfish hypocrisy.

I can't believe I live in a world where having an opinion that smoking should be discouraged, and those that do make poor choices, is considered to be vile. I must have entered the parallel world of the smokers.

Nobody has said smoking shouldn’t be discouraged.

what people have said is that firstly people shouldn’t be denied healthcare because they smoke and secondly it’s a much more complex situation than just saying “don’t smoke”

I think some people like to make themselves feel better by over simplifying these things rather than consider the complexities and implications.

No posts have pitied and enabled those who smoke. People are pointing out that addiction is complex and taking a judgemental and morally superior stance isn’t helpful.

Your point about non smokers not being sad they don’t smoke is the point - they aren’t addicted so why would they be sad to not be doing something that is bad for their health? My parents started smoking aged 9 and 10, living in fairly extreme poverty, they would smoke cigarette butts they found on the floor. Both my parents were raised in abusive households and found that smoking helped to calm their anxiety. Of course they didn’t have this insight at the time though, being traumatised children. My dad went on to use drugs, as a way of coping with flashbacks from abuse and to feel numb. Neither of my parents were supported to get an education as they were just focused on surviving everyday. So many people have experienced life like my parents, to say smoking or any substance use is a simple ‘choice’ is so overly simplistic and ignorant.

I have never smoked. I do not consider myself morally superior or better than those who do. I was privileged in having other coping resources available to me, I was privileged in getting an extensive education, and I was privileged being born at a time when more was known about the ill-effects of tobacco. I repeat again - people with addiction need empathy, not judgement. The NHS is available to ALL, and to start policing people and judging worthiness to receive medical treatments is like something out of an Atwood novel.

I didn't pity or enable my mother

I loathed smoking then and I loathe it today. I'd like it banned in whatever form it comes

I just understand how she got hooked and how it ultimately killed her (in the most horrible way)

Who said that?

Discouraging smoking is a long way from withholding medical treatment as a punitive "up yours, smokers", which is the point of the thread.

I think all addiction should be viewed through a lens of compassion, not judgement
Yes, of course, but it comes at a high cost.

High cost to treat, high cost to prevent. Putting all the onus of sorting out the issue on others, accepting no responsibility for self help.

I definitely can't agree that treatment shouldn't be available to treat the outcome of addiction. However, sufferers can't also expect to fully shift responsibility on society when said society is already providing education and warnings, and access to treat the addiction.

There has to be a time when whether rich or poor, individual need to accept that they have to do the hard work or sacrifices themselves too.

Education won’t ‘fix’ addiction. Eradicating poverty and other social and health inequalities will, as that lies at the heart of the issue.

see this i would disagree with "Eradicating poverty and other social and health inequalities will, as that lies at the heart of the issue."

because how many clebs, how many rich people drink, do drugs etc so to say its down to poverty or inequalities does not give reasons for this

Yabu unfortunately the tax of cigarettes fund the nhs if they banned smoking we would have no money for nhs it's the sad unfortunately truth .it's a bloody vicious circle you can't ban people because of life style choices uou don't like let's ban all the sad middle class idiots who snort cocaine that ruins there noses all the sad low class drunks .where would it end .

“Morally superior” but … It’s great to not smoke. I am happy for this. It’s better than smoking for sure to be a non smoker. Morals - is it morally wrong to smoke? Only when you inflict second hand smoke injury on others. So a non smoker is therefore morally superior to those who smoke and injure a child’s health first example. It’s just like someone who doesn’t drink and drive as well - I’m happy to not drink. Saved myself and others so much hassle from not smoking and drinking. I’ve said from the start put taxes up on tobacco and vapes. It’s not a popular thing to think here. There’s pity in this thread for smokers. Others have been against treatment. I am not against treatment. There is confusion in your post over addiction. Smoking has nicotine addiction which can be treated through not smoking patches. It’s not ignorance to say that smoking is a choice because it is a choice now because their are patches to get over the nicotine. If you want to stop there is help. The people I know who smoke do so because it is thought social, it gets them a break at work and they like to smoke. The risks are known from the packet pictures at point of sale.

Interesting first post OP. You find netmums more your thing.

As an ex smoker and a horse rider and farmer (plus someone who’s paid my NI for the past 30 years)

yes I think YABU

Extensive research has shown the strong links between poverty and addiction. Similarly with trauma and addiction. Living in poverty is inherently traumatic so it’s no surprise there are links here.

Celebrities and rich people are not immune to trauma and mental health issues, which are also at the root of addiction.

There is a world of difference between using drugs experimentally and becoming addicted. Drug use and drug addiction are not synonymous.

Skateboarding is inherently riskier than a static bike in your own home! Both exercise.

No. It's the blanket blame and condemnation that's vile