To think Gavin and Stacey is like The Office?

[Jumell]

In terms of clever, subtle humour?

@HollyKnight I like all those too - I also used to love Rab c nesbitt and Fatger Ted but can't actually 'relate' to either .

@HeBeaverandSheBeaver we still frequently watch one foot in the grave repeats- I always found it funny but probably since I'm now 63 I can relate even more

I agree about BlackAdder

Yeah, there is just nothing about the characters or the storylines that appeals to me. I do like Father Ted, but not Rab C Nesbitt. The IT Crowd and Ab Fab are probably my favourite shows. Derry Girls is amazing but I can see why it wouldn't interest some people.

Men Behaving Badly is set in Ealing, I would say it is as English as they get, West London in the 90s was very much like that, when that kind of flat was rented by regular people with boring jobs!

Yes, but that is something I can relate to. The relationships they have with each other and their girlfriends aren't exclusively an English thing. Nothing about an Essex man and a Welsh woman getting together or a bunch of people working in an office interests me. It doesn't matter how good the script is or how good the actors are, the story has to interest me for me to watch it.

@GrammarTeacher @Mittens67 @DemonicCaveMaggot

Any advance on what’s cruel or bullying about The Office? I’m genuinely really intrigued and feel short-changed by this thread in which people have slagged off the best sitcom ever and failed to substantiate their inexplicable criticisms!

Best in your opinion. It's cruel and mean-spirited in my opinion. If you don't find it to be then fine.
It's awkward and horrible. And it laughs AT people. It's not the sort of thing I find funny.
it's also why I hate Mr Bean.

I think you misunderstand me. I’m well aware that people have different opinions and I know The Office is only the best in my opinion rather than that being factually the case!

I’m just asking someone to explain what’s ‘cruel’ about it? Most comedy has us laughing at people, whether it’s at their incompetence, their misunderstandings or pretentiousness. That’s mostly how sitcoms work.

I totally get it if you find the awkwardness of The Office too much - it is at times. But it can’t be cruel to laugh at David Brent or Gareth, as they’re not real 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Different sort of comedies for me. G&S is a romcom whereas The Office is a mockumentary.

The Office is good but Extras is certainly Gervais and Merchant's masterpiece. They also knew when to knock it on the head whereas I think G&S probably could have done without the last two specials and just left it as it was at the end of series 3.

Extras was brilliant 🙌

I loved Extras. I think Ricky Gervais is an absolute master at creating characters that aren’t always the most likeable but you still feel empathy with them.

His comedy does feel awkward at times and like you shouldn’t laugh but it’s holding a mirror up to these people and situations.

I think Afterlife was a brilliant series too. The dark awkward humour was very cleverly written imo. And that’s what Ricky does brilliantly.

Something can indeed be cruel if it happens to a fictional character. In fact that's often essential to the plot.
Maybe I over empathise with fictional characters but of course you can be cruel to fictional characters.
It's mean spirited in my opinion. That's what makes it awkward and I really, really don't like it.
I don't want it banned or anything. I just don't find it funny. It's
a shame though as Stephen Merchant's stand up (very different) is great.

Ok. Thanks for explaining. I think this is really interesting. I suppose I do sort of agree that writers can be cruel to fictional characters, in a way… like when you’re reading a book and you are genuinely horrified that the author keeps making terrible things happen to a really decent character. I’m thinking Tess of the D’Urbervilles stuff.

But nothing terrible happens to the characters in The Office - and the crap that happens is mostly self-generated. For example Brent gets fired for being a really terrible boss! But this is nothing compared with the shit that happens to genuinely good characters is pretty much every tv show ever!

I know we’re laughing at the characters in The Office… But we’re generally laughing at their ridiculous behaviour (again, no different from most sitcoms), not laughing at things like Brent getting fired.

The genius of Gervais is that we’re not just happily laughing along - we’re also squirming and empathising to some extent. It’s definitely uncomfortable. In my opinion that’s what makes it better tv.

For me it's way too uncomfortable. It makes my skin crawl. And I don't laugh at anything in it.
It's personal. It's Gervais' style and it's not for me.

Yeah. I love all the sitcoms he's done. Don't like him in stand up or when he presents award ceremonies and stuff, just feels like he's trying too hard to offend people or be outrageous. He should stick to what he's good at.

He probably was aware, but the wedding made it real, not just something he'd have to do in the future.

It’s a bit sadder than Brent gets fired for being a terrible boss, he’s a terrible boss but he thinks he’s an amazing boss and his team love him. He gets fired and has to face the fact that his team don’t give a shit and their friendship, which was actually his entire identity, is an illusion. It’s brilliant tv drama, but it’s also gut wrenching and unpleasant to watch. It made me feel that Gervais has a masochistic streak that I don’t know if I want to be an audience for.

It’s definitely sad that Brent deludes himself like this, yes. It’s not straightforward comedy - nor is it meant to be. But it’s also true that he brings the whole situation on himself- ie people would like him if he behaved better. There’s that glimpse in the Christmas special of him interacting positively with Carol - and you sort of think ‘ah, look, people just need to give him a chance’ but even then he’s not really up to it; he’s deeply flawed. But the audience are on his side for a bit.

Did you mean sadistic rather than masochistic btw?

Smithy is with Sonia for aspirational reasons. She’s a bit classier. He’s trying to get away from his background.
Nessa really understands him, whereas Sonia is trying to smarten him up.

Accepting how he feels for Nessa is a radical act of self acceptance.

@OPsSockpuppet I know the people in comedy shows aren’t real. Some humour is based on being spiteful about certain qualities and traits. It targets people for ridicule. Marks them out as objects of scorn. It bullies. Oneupmanship.

Gavin and Stacey laughs about the funny characteristics of well loved people. They’d walk across hot coals for each other.

Sorry, but I have to respond to this.

Some humour is based on being spiteful about certain qualities and traits. It targets people for ridicule. Marks them out as objects of scorn. It bullies.

Bullies made-up characters. So not bullying at all, in fact? It’s spotlighting questionable human behaviour and highlighting both how laughable and also relatable it is. So not laugh-out-loud funny for the most part - but very thought-provoking and sort of wryly funny.

Oneupmanship. What?! This makes no sense here.

I think my original point was that I liked both G&S and The Office, but that they’re nothing alike and I think The Office is better. Second point is obviously totally subjective. But you yourself have shown how different they are. G&S is probably slightly less realistic- but I’m not going to take issue with its sentimentality, because that’s its selling point!

Clearly some of us have a sensitivity to something that you don’t share. I’m not able to describe it well, and it’s of no intrinsic value, but certain types of humour is skin crawlingly, physically painful for me.

I can’t find it humorous. It’s horrifying.

Equally, I can’t watch casual violence. When Godzilla and Kong are thrashing it out on the shore of some South American city, I’m appalled by the casual collateral damage. I suspect desensitisation to that is problematic is some scenarios.

I may have an issue with over empathy. A lack of boundary.

Fair enough. That sounds hard.

Masochistic in that Gervais was playing Brent and I assume writing for the character, and kept piling on the painful humiliating interactions with no relief. It’s almost like getting a glimpse into his psyche. I suppose it affects me more to watch because several of my close friends have suddenly become quite self destructive so it’s possible I’m watching it all through a more emotional lens and I need to lighten up. But youre right about the Xmas special, it was a perfect send off for all the characters.

To understand the full Sonia or Nessa dichotomy you need to watch the 2019 special.