to think it is good that supermarkets/express/garages are all closed christmas day

[WillowTit]

i am sure in previous years shops would open for a couple of hours
discovered that we dont have enough wine but apart from premium overpriced stores shops are shut
and major garages too
i have enough petrol,
we will manage without the extra wine
i am glad the shops are shut
aibu

@phoenixrosehere

so if you are going to quote me, quote the entire thing, and not choose to purposely take me out of context.

Quoting the rest of it makes absolutely no difference to what you're trying to prove. In fact it solidifies the point I was trying to make.

In doing so, intentionally or otherwise, you dismissed the huge barriers and problems that face people in low paid and insecure positions. Posting that they can join a union may have been just ‘stating a fact’ but it is actually non too subtly placing the blame for any poor working conditions onto the individuals concerned. They can join a union; if they don’t want to work on Christmas Day or <insert other issue> then they can demand the support of their union and if not it is their fault.

Unions are not always or indeed often very helpful. They also don’t tend to help with niggly complaints unless there are a lot of them. And for those working in zero hour contracts raising their head above the parapet is dangerous for obvious reasons. Telling people to ‘get another job’ is horrible. ‘It isn’t as if people can’t choose to work somewhere else’ so was said in An Inspector Calls was it not

@Sounderwhelmed Thank you. Finally someone who understands how the real world works 👏

There you go again, adding layers of interpretation to other people's posts. It really is tiresome. I was merely disputing your statement that people in the jobs you mentioned don't have unions available to them.

Well, it isn’t me who is adding layers of interpretation then, as at no point have I said that people in the jobs you mentioned don't have unions available to them.

What I did say is that ‘is saying “oh, they can join a union” something that passes for a left wing view’?

It is morally reprehensible to squawk that people can ‘get other jobs if they don’t like the ones they have.’ At no point should that be an acceptable thing to say. That attitude is how appalling practices happen and continue to happen.

Changing jobs is not straightforward. Take the care sector for example (I used to work in it.) They are desperate for care workers so theoretically you can change jobs at any time. But. But but but.

you need a new DBS (£40)
and new uniform (£20)
and three days mandatory training (unpaid, so you lose three days work)

It is easy to see why people end up staying.

And yes, you can join a union but with zero hours and / or crap shifts being the threat over your head, you won’t make too much fuss.

That is why I hate the Christmas Day thing. It’s something that runs deeper than Christmas but it’s something that goes against what Christmas is, or should be anyway, irrespective of your beliefs. The lowest paid spend the day serving the more privileged and powerful. And yes, I know doctors work CD and they are well paid and I know pilots too and even king bloody Charles. But it’s not mostly is it? It’s the care sector and the catering sector and the shop workers and they are low paid women so who gives a shit if they’d rather be with their own families, I just have my milk / go out for a meal / go abroad. They don’t like it? Of course they do; I asked them. And even if they don’t, well, they can get another job, it hardly comes as a surprise, does it?

It’s a fucking horrible attitude.

You said many jobs don't have unions and went on to cite retail staff and care workers.

More accurately then, many jobs don’t have a strong union who will support their members in such matters. I’d go as far as to say most to be honest. do we really think mrs jones who works part time at the local Londis shop is going to have the union tearing down her employees Rottweiler style if they try to make her work Christmas Day? Of course not. More likely she’d be told to get another job. With the requisite tinkly, superior laugh.

Our local costcutter opens but the family that run it don't celebrate Xmas.

"The lowest paid spend the day serving the more privileged and powerful."

This is the scenario 365 days of every year. There's nothing special about Dec 25 when it comes to the labour market.

People whose workplace requires them on that date can organize their "magic" for another day.

There's nothing special about the 25th December? It's only the largest annual public holiday in the UK.

This is the scenario 365 days of every year. There's nothing special about Dec 25 when it comes to the labour market

Oh, but there is, if only that for one day we at least try to embody the spirit of kindness and generosity. And it is either a special day - for personal or religious reasons - so should be granted off as a matter of course bar the jobs where this genuinely can’t be done - or it is not, in which case it really shouldn’t matter if you can’t go out to a restaurant or a shop.

I am not blaming individuals for this. It’s part of a societal shift. The point is the more it happens, the more normalised it becomes and when my own children are my age it wouldn’t surprise me if Christmas Day really is ‘just any other day’. Which is rather sad.

@BettyBardMacDonald Do you work the 25th December?

This is the scenario 365 days of every year. There's nothing special about Dec 25 when it comes to the labour market

Quite & I wonder where the people who think the privileged and the powerful abuse cheap labour have done their Xmas shopping!

Thank you for your reframing of what you said.

People whose workplace requires them on that date can organize their "magic" for another day

Sarcasm aside, this generally isn’t possible because people’s time off doesn’t align. I think that’s what is special about the day - it’s often one of the few opportunities for families to come together, and that isn’t me being overly sentimental: my family are just my own two children and husband, who I obviously love very much but I see them every day! But today we had PIL around and that was special for my children who don’t get to see them much. Saying ‘oh well, you can come on the 29th December’ or whatever doesn’t work since, as we are often curtly told here, only Christmas Day and Boxing Day (if you’re lucky) are the holidays, everything else is a ‘normal working day.’

As I said below, I did for many years. When that no longer suited me, I exerted myself to find a job that gave the entire Christmas week off.

I did not demand that my industry change its longstanding paradigm to suit my personal preferences and lifestyle choices.

Well there's no point in doing xmas shopping when you're spending the day alone, in a random hotel, thanks to your privileged and powerful employer.

Where do you get "we"?

You are imputing your ideas about kindness and whatever onto others with no basis in fact.

To many of us, Dec 25 is about presents, cheese and Christmas films. Not some sort of mass altruism.

So working Christmas was part of the working conditions when you joined, it was not forced upon you.
Why can't you see what people are trying to explain to you here? You had a choice. This is not the case for many. It was forced upon us. I'm not sure what part of that you are failing to grasp?

Not so. A few years ago, the local ScotMid was making its workers come in for a few hours on Christmas day.

Thankfully, they changed policy and the shop assistants are now getting Christmas off.

Oh I don’t think they do, I bloody know that they do and I think you do too. But I can still make choices that sit as comfortably as possible. I can support local businesses; I can shop ethically; I can exercise my vote according to my beliefs.

There is a huge discrepancy between richest and poorest and I can’t do much about it, nor can anyone. What is particularly uncomfortable for me about Christmas is that it is a day when that’s supposed to be put aside albeit temporarily. The whole ‘but the plebs are delighted to work Christmas Day as they get more money’ isn’t a particularly nice attitude to have, in all honesty.

Haha, exactly!

Exchanging gifts from Shein and Amazon and Temu while preaching to us about labour practices and workers' rights.

"Supposed to be put aside....."

Where on earth are you getting that? "Supposed to" according to what authority?

You just made that up. You can't possibly know or guess where anyone shops, so stating that as a fact just makes you look silly, small minded and immature.

It can be about whatever you want it to be to you personally. Do what you want to do, which isn’t meant dismissively, but obviously people’s individual beliefs are just that. But going against what the core values of the day are meant to be is uncomfortable.

In essence we seem to have two different strands here, one which is insistent that people just have to get on with it, change jobs if they don’t like it, if not, tough. That’s not an attitude I care for, regardless of personal beliefs, I think it’s pretty horrible actually. The other strand acknowledges it’s important to some people but believes everyone working today is doing so borne from personal choice and preference, which I think is naive and blinkered.