Men just don't get it ...

[TheyJustDontGetIt]

Name changed ...

Men will never fully appreciate that women will cross the road if they hear someone walking behind them, have to talk to someone on their phone when walking down the street alone etc ...

A car advert just came on the TV and showed that if you moved your foot under a sensor on the bottom of the boot, then the boot opens up. This is to help when you have your hands full and want to put shopping etc in the boot.

My husband simply didn't understand that my first thought is that it could leaves us women vulnerable when we are getting in a car on our own. Could someone simply come behind the car, do this, and then be able to get in the car?

I've been the victim of some very serious domestic violence previously, so maybe that's why my mind jumped to that.

However, men just don't get our concerns!

I don't live in constant fear. I just don't put myself at risk.

This is how I feel . I wouldn’t take unnecessary risks but I’ve never been particularly worries about being out alone day or night . I may be deluded but I’m late 50s and I’ve no intention of living with that level of anxiety .

If a man wants to attack women, driving a taxi gives him a far better chance of finding a victim than hanging around a street late at night. So you are probably objectively safer walking for 15 minutes than getting a taxi, unless you are drunk or the road is badly lit. And even then the extra risk in walking is from being hit by a car, not getting attacked.

Ideally you would get a taxi driven by a woman, but very few women want to drive taxis at night, for many obvious reasons...

Fortunately the risk of something bad in any of these cases is actually very low. But the perception of risk is important and it's hard for anyone to overcome our innate fear of being alone in the dark, especially since actual attacks get so much publicity.

Yes, I would always use a trusted taxi firm.

I have these fears as well.

I also feel vulnerable alone at night with young kids, if my husband is away on business.

In the park, I also make sure to walk where there's other people, even in broad daylight.

I don't think the risk is very low at all if you wall alone in the dark.

I've been harassed in broad daylight by a man, while I was visible pregnant and pushing a pushchair.

If the risk of this was very low, those experiences wouldn't be so commonplace.

I don't speak for all women, only myself.

I think that the perception that it's worse for women is partly because, typically (not accounting for very strong woman v smaller male), women are much less able to defend themselves. If I'm walking down the street at night and a man decides to attack me, I'm largely at his mercy - there is not the same discrepancy in strength between two typical men.

The statistic you're referring to is regarding random violent attacks, by strangers - it's true that men are more likely to be victims of those. Women however are more likely to be victims of sexual assault, stalking, harassment, and domestic abuse.

We also cannot discount the anecdotal evidence women have from their friends, sisters, mums etc, that won't be reflected in the statistics because they're never reported.
Of my group of female friends (including me), all of us have been subject to unwanted sexual contact in clubs/bars, some have been coerced into sex they didn't really want, some have been choked in the bedroom without consent, some have been followed when walking, some have been physically assaulted, and one has been sexually harassed by a male family member. None of these things have been reported, but they contribute to our perception of danger because the stories are everywhere. I don't know a single woman who has not been a victim on some level.

On the other hand from my male friends, I have heard stories only of 'fights' they were in. 'He's a dickhead', 'he came off worse' etc - nothing that left them in fear.
I'm not disputing that these horrific violent attacks happen to men - the stats are there. However it's not the same barrage of smaller 'incidents', which happen to women and leave them distrusting, and sometimes scarred.

This isn't even getting into the escalation of violence in porn, which women are well aware the vast majority of men consume.

People form opinions and fears based on their experience rather than stats, and stats can be misleading regardless.

My boot stays locked, even when the car doors are opened. There's a button on the dashboard that releases it, or you press the extra button on the key fob. You can't open it otherwise.

I was trying to explain to someone a few years ago that if I stopped the car at traffic lights and it was very late in the evening, I'd lock all the doors to stop someone from jumping in or opening the passenger door to snatch my handbag. He didn't understand the issue at all and thought it was a ridiculous notion.

I'm sure many wouldn't think of this particular example as worth considering, but it's an example of something that many women do think about.

As always with these threads, people love to say that it's a binary choice between "living in constant - CONSTANT! - fear of all men" and "living your life" ignoring the absolutely egregious levels of violence going on around us.

Whereas the rather boring conclusion is that we all assess levels of risk differently depending on a complex variety of factors like past experience, awareness of the facts, personality, etc etc.

A car advert just came on the TV and showed that if you moved your foot under a sensor on the bottom of the boot, then the boot opens up. This is to help when you have your hands full and want to put shopping etc in the boot.

My husband simply didn't understand that my first thought is that it could leaves us women vulnerable when we are getting in a car on our own. Could someone simply come behind the car, do this, and then be able to get in the car?

Is there not some way to lock it?

@slightlydistrac

I actually lock all the car doors within approx 5 seconds of getting into the car - my mum told me to do it when I was 17 because a man once opened her door and tried to get in when she was stopped at traffic lights.

My partner also finds it strange. He doesn't even lock his front door when he's in the house

Yes.
This technology in no way shape or form makes secretly getting into a car any easier than the buttons that have been on the backs of cars for decades.

The OP's fears are totally irrational.

It’s not ignorance, it’s a different view point that is perfectly valid. Not all off us women are terrified to walk by themselves at night or have keys out. In fact, I like it as I find it relaxing. Waiting now to be told I am deliberately putting myself at risk just by acting in a normal manner.

I agree. I was watching something with DH once and a woman mentioned the keys between the knuckles "trick" and he scoffed and said "as if people do that".

Needless to say he had a very eye opening discussion where I pointed out that not only do people do it, but I had only done it the previous week while walking around an unfamiliar town after dark, heading back to my car.

He had no concept of being fearful when out on your own.

He does, however, now understand and has been a lot more mindful since I said it.

I recognise there is an increased risk for women but the actual risk of being attacked by a stranger in most areas is extremely low. Previous experiences of being attacked will of course make you feel less safe and that’s awful

Im convinced though that the concept that women need to be perpetually aware and scared is being driven by certain men who want us to feel that way though.

I often run in the dark including through woods and remote areas. I go off on long runs on my own in secluded places. Maybe it’s a risk but I refuse to limit my life to that extent. I’m always alert but based on my experiences lone men in these areas are nothing but polite and friendly.

I’d be more hesitant in areas with high crime rates and don’t like multi storey car parks but I really think fear is being used to control us.

Obviously this is more of a risk if you have a history of men in your life that would be a risk. Most violence against women is from someone they know. Cases do obviously occur which are awful but statistically…

I know a woman who grew up on the streets, kicked out at age 14. Pushed into prostitution, terribly abused by their partner, then did three years prison for being the driver in an armed robbery. She now lives on a canal boat, alone, on an empty towpath in the countryside. She has zero fear walking about in town on a night, and i've witnessed her face down, and physically fight a number of blokes, successfully enough for them to back off, or for someone to intervene. She's not afraid of men, or pain and violence, or the law. Not afraid, wary and sharp, but not scared. Men have no idea what to do with her. I've witnessed so many men try to intimidate her, and she just laughs in their faces, and they invariably back down when they realize they're actually going to get hurt if they persist. The last thing most aggressive men expect, is for the woman to be right up for a fight. I also know plenty of men who would run a mile from a fist fight. I dont know what this adds to the conversation, but she jumped straight into my head as i read the thread.

I recognise there is an increased risk for women but the actual risk of being attacked by a stranger in most areas is extremely low

It is, although I expect most people couldn't put a figure on it in order to compare whether any action is worth taking or not, because it's very complicated to work out.

Therefore, many people would consider a low-effort mitigation 'worth it' regardless of the absolute risk, particularly if it mitigates a relative risk increase.
Higher-effort mitigations or curbs to freedom would take more thinking about.

I actually think what it comes down to is that male violence against women feels insidious - just casually woven into society.

It's in porn, so works its way into our romantic relationships. It's in social circles - men touching women inappropriately in bars and their mates not calling them out for it. It's even permeating into literature now - I hear there's a big demand for male on female violence, dressed up as hardcore domination, these days.

All these things are just largely accepted by other men, or go under the rug. Leaves me feeling that sexual violence is the norm and, if it's the norm, that I cannot 100% trust any man not to be capable of it.

Sorry if someone has already said this but my car just has a button you press to open the boot. It's not much different surely? The most annoying thing about the foot sensors is that the boot constantly closes when you're trying to load your shopping! It's not a new feature though, been around a few years.

Where or how on earth have you drawn that conclusion?

Women don't need to be afraid of weirdos in the park, it's the man in their own fucking home.

Yes. I think you've misunderstood me.

The previous poster pointed to data that men are more likely to be victims of violence than women, and questioned how it could be that women have it worse.

My answer is that the reason is (in my view, fairly obviously):

i) Severity. A woman being attacked by a man is in far greater danger than vice versa, for example. Although I've seen data before suggesting that woman-on-man domestic violence is as prevalent as man-on-woman, it's far, far less serious. It's almost never deadly.

ii) Avoidability. A man is rarely at risk of serious violence in his own home. Not true for women. And men can, to a certain extent, choose to 'stay out of trouble' or to de-escalate when out in the pub, for example. When a woman is attacked outside the home, it's very rarely because she has gone looking for a fight.

I read on here that one of the reasons women are less likely to be the victim of stranger violence is because they tend to take fewer risks, e.g., less likely to walk home alone in the dark, etc. Not the only reason, of course, but perhaps women's strategies for risk avoidance are effective.

They've no clue

I asked my 6'2 husband if anyone had ever told him he was walking on the wrong side of the road
and he was incredulous

I get what you mean. I once watched a really interesting video that interviewed both men and women and asked them the exact same questions and their answers were always the same for all the women and the same for the men. Things like, "have you ever crossed the road to avoid someone". "Would you take a short cut done and alleyway if it was dark".

I've actually spoken to my husband about this and he now does get it.

Anecdotal, but the only people I have known personally who have been violently attacked by strangers (mugged, in one case at knifepoint) are male, and it happened when they were walking home late at night, alone. That's something I, as a woman, wouldn't do unless I had absolutely no other choice. A pp was right to point out that taxis can be dangerous but I would personally feel safer in a taxi from a reputable local firm, that I'd phoned and ordered, than I would on the streets at midnight.