To think a 3:20 finish is absurd?

[Itsr]

It’s mostly mums at the school gates. Because the 3:20 finish worked well at a time when most women stayed at home.

now most women work, which means two parents working, why does school finish ar 3:20?! Yes I know there are after school classes etc but some don’t go on for too long and they also cost.

what actually is the reason why the school day isn’t aligned with a work day (like it is with most private schools!)

What should happen is that childcare through primary school is properly subsidised (as well as early years) so that it is somewhere between £200-400 per month maximum contribution from parents including with the rest paid automatically by the state.

This would enable all parents to work, and save enormous amounts of money wasted on administering our totally dysfunctional childcare systems at present (ridiculous 15hrs/ 30hrs systems that aren't funded properly, funding through Universal Credit for certain people, funding through "tax free childcare" that isn't tax free, funding through legacy childcare vouchers. A total mess and results in lack of availability and many people not working who can and should be.

The school day (in Scotland, at any rate) actually used to be from 9am to 4 pm. In many areas, the SLT and/or LA cut the lunch hour and breaks in order to achieve an earlier finish.

Supposedly, this was to allow for homework clubs, extra-curriculars, etc. In actual facts, many LAs used this as a cost-cutting exercise which allowed school clusters to share janitorial staff, cut back on supply teacher hours etc. [Source: my own school days and 40 yrs in teaching.]

Do you know what in loco parentis means? They absolutely should provide the option given that in a world where many families need two incomes to survive it is almost completely impossible to manage with the standard school day. My kids' primary school (middle of nowhere countryside) doesn't offer wraparound care because "there isn't the demand". It's total chicken and egg. As a result, I know dozens of women who can't get jobs because they can't get childcare, and round it goes. It is absolutely ludicrous to chant "schools aren't childcare" when it entirely misses the point that schools should be an essential element of providing childcare. It's a primitively rigid and flawed way of thinking. If we want proper equality at all for millions of women around the country, schools need to be a part of it and need to start thinking of themselves as childcare.

What do you do for a job, Tism? I'm sure I can come up with a scathing opinion about it without the need for any realistic grounding.

Private school teacher here…

My current school finishes at 3.15pm (reception), 3.30pm (KS1), 3.45 (KS2) - so not too dissimilar from your current school.

Previous school I worked at finished at 5.30pm. However, parents paid hugely increased school fees to reflect this. No such thing as free childcare sadly - whether you pay in school fees at a private school or after school club fees at a state. I could just about cope with the longer hours as I only had half the kiddos in my class (15/16 instead of 30+ you have in a state school) and behaviour was good. But it was exhausting.

Because kids aren’t adults and shouldn’t be expected to do the same hours!

Now now its very realistic, spent 3 years living with a primary school teacher. I know what its like. Secondary better but only marginally.

Boarding schools are a completely different kettle of fish because they provide round the clock care outside of core teaching hours.

I am familiar with a number of day schools and they mostly finish between 3.15pm (infants) and 4.30pm at the latest (secondary, although my Y10 DC’s school ends at 4pm).

Private schools aren’t teaching after 4/4.30pm much the same as state schools. They offer wrap around care and after school clubs just as state schools do. The fact that it may not be an additional cost is the only thing that distinguishes private school after school provision from state schools that may impose an additional cost.

Private school teachers generally earn more and have longer holidays hence the private school sector’s ability to offer more after school provision.

The above is all pretty obvious so I assume you’re just starting to start a state v private bun fight.

Yours smugly because I paid my fees in advance over 5 years ago (into a property constituted FIA scheme) and am exempt from VAT.

HH123

I think work should finish earlier 😭

Actually, when ours were at school in France, which is broken up into 3 different Departments with different holidays as it is a secular country, despite the many churches, ie Easter encompassed Good Friday and Christmas, right up until the BH. February half term is split so that all are not on the ski slopes at the same time -

school was 8-5 with Wednesday half day when if a pupil was having extra curricular lesson, perhaps music, gymnastics (school gym open) all accommodated.

This is the same as an adult working day, of course, at tne weekend they visit grandparents, do sports, do their copious amounts of homework, events watch
dire French Canal+

For outlying villages the school bus picked children up early and would then meander around the hamlets waiting for strays to run out for the bus and join classmates collectively finishing homework.
Maternelle is compulsory from 3+
Why am I describing this? because in France the family is the basis of their civilisation thats why.

Hours are geared to accommodate family life, long lunch hours, stores and businesses closed during this time.
It is not unusual to see 3 or 4 even generations dining out together, children well behaved. as are the adults

I realise this is totally irrelevant to our children’s scholastic journey here of course

Eh exactly how does that work? I have a full time professional job. Exactly how do I manage to be in two places at one time.

Exactly.

Do what you’re doing now for childcare.

How weird, I know a number of teachers (including my mother, who I lived with for 20 years) and have had an entirely different experience to you. What was it that you do again?

School is absolutely child care. Nothing about school is for the children. It’s just somewhere for them to go.

Sorry, meant to say "including longer hours during school holidays as well as wrap around in term time". For some reason part of my post vanished.

The parents should organise childcare for the hours they need then pay it and the state should refund all in excess of X per month, within parameters of reasonable hourly cost.

This would actually generate more GDP and tax revenue even on a net basis and reduce welfare dependency both now and in the future. And reduce sex inequality in earnings and pensions. It's a no brainer really which is why other countries don't charge people £2k per child for childcare and the state steps in: not from some sense of generosity, but because it makes economic sense.

I do look after my child the vast majority of the time. But in my working hours - which are not my choice - I'm paid to do my job.

I had my job 10+ years before I had my child, and it would be beyond stupid to give up a professional career just for the few years I need wraparound childcare. My industry moves so fast, I'd never get back in.

The norm nowadays is for most women to work at least part time with children. If you don't work you're either very wealthy, or you don't earn enough for it to be worth it.

Then send them there. Easy solution. You want long hours, pay for it.

It’s not childcare.

If you can afford private then wrap around care costs won't be an issue?

Paying for wraparound care would be a fraction of the cost of private schooling.

You can have that too if you are happy to pay £20,000+ a year for it.

I am in a very fortunate position of having the facilities and the budget. That isn't available to a lot of people.

If the state wants to ensure equity for women having state supported wrap around is a start in evening out the playing field.

Yep ours is 8:15am-4pm standard day, breakfast club 7am-8:15am, AFS wraps 3:15pm-5:30pm. Clubs run from end of school day. But we pay extra for all. Which we’re happy to.

Why is it the state’s job to make up for useless men? Men need to step up and do their bit. I’m seeing many men responsible for pick ups / drop offs at work and that’s as it should be.