To think a 3:20 finish is absurd?

[Itsr]

It’s mostly mums at the school gates. Because the 3:20 finish worked well at a time when most women stayed at home.

now most women work, which means two parents working, why does school finish ar 3:20?! Yes I know there are after school classes etc but some don’t go on for too long and they also cost.

what actually is the reason why the school day isn’t aligned with a work day (like it is with most private schools!)

Wasn't that theory blown apart by the pandemic? School absolutely is childcare and it's just snobbery that makes teachers claim it isn't.

School was designed for a world where women didn't work and children worked on the land in the holidays and a serious look at the best way to revise the school year and day is long overdue.

There needs to be better wraparound care provision. We are still on the waiting list for after-school club in Y1 - last time I checked I was 13th in the queue for a Wednesday. Thank goodness I managed to find a childminder before mine started Reception, but many weren't so lucky. I know three women in my son's class who aren't working the hours they want/need to because of the lack of childcare.

Yet when we visited the school they didn't mention the waiting list at all - just said to call as soon as we had confirmation he had a place. Which we did. They also say there isn't much call for wraparound care 🤯

I couldn't agree more. I wish someone would tell the DWP "school isn't childcare", because the moment your child turns 5 they expect you to work 30 hours a week. I guess it would be do- able if you worked at your kids' actual school (except then you'd have to find some extra work in the holidays to satisfy their requirements).

Oh, but it's OK, you can use some of this magical wrap around care! Which sometimes exists and....sometimes doesn't. There's not a single childminder in our village, or nearby.

But as a low income single mum you soon learn you don't count as a person, so hey 🤷‍♀️ Feminism doesn't concern itself with the likes of us, obviously.

Whoa yourself. Teachers aren’t paid until 5. They are paid for 1265 hours a year. That’s it.

Our private pre prep provides care from 8-4 included in our fees (£17k), anything beyond that is extra and quite costly! In prep the provision goes to 6.45pm if you wish, included in the fees (£27k a year) so there is quite a big fee increase to account for the cost of the additional hours. There are a lot of specific teachers that just do the late afternoon/evening sessions, somehow I don’t expect that state schools can stretch to the extra costs.

@Itsr Send them to private school then, if you're so desperate to have them not finish till 5pm. One of the first posts on here nailed it; schools are there to educate, not child mind

I'm a teacher at a prep school and mother of children who attend private schools - I'm not sure what private schools you are looking at that finish lessons at 6. School lessons finish at 330 and there are clubs until 445. Wrap around care is available until 6pm, at a further cost.

It would be impossible for children to retain any information taught if their days were that long for them. It would also be ridiculous to ask teachers to teach for that long, on top of the amount of hours we do outside of the classroom. You are clearly someone who thinks teaching stops the moment the children leave the classroom.

As mentioned many times above, school is not a babysitting/childminding service so that parents can go to work. Sorting childcare/pick up arrangements is something we accept as parents when we decide to become parents and if that means needing to rearrange work hours then so be it.

don’t want to have to pay fees but feel like I’ve got no option

This doesn't make any sense. Surely it's cheaper to pay a local childminder or after school club for a few hours, than private school fees?!

Most people I know who choose private are more alarmed by the length of the holidays than days start/end times.

This is very true.

While the OP is wrong, some of the responses haven't been much better.

Speaking as a teacher in a private school, you sound a bit daft and deluded.

Most private schools do not have a normal teaching day until 5 or 6pm. They might have a slightly longer school day, but most day schools still finish lessons before 4pm. And yes, the children do get tired, even the secondary aged ones.

Many private schools will offer paid-for wraparound care until as late as 6pm, but so will many state schools. If you've managed to find a private school that offers this for free then good for you, but most charge an additional fee, which is likely to be more than the cost of the equivalent wraparound care in a state school. Like in state school, this will not be additional lessons and will not be run by teachers but by after school care staff rather than qualified teachers. The children will sit around, have a snack and play games and chat or whatever.

Often, if "wraparound care" in private schools is free, then it is in the form of clubs or activities. These are intended for children who have a genuine interest in doing the activity, but sadly there are always a number of unfortunate children who are forced to sign up every day of the week because parents don't want to use paid wraparound care. These poor children are then made to run around a hockey pitch in the rain when they don't even like sport, or doing drama club when they're really shy, or whatever else. I feel really sorry for these children, and wish that their parents would just pick them up from school, or sign them up to the paid club where they can just sit around and chill.

If you're able to afford private school for your child then that's fab, they will get access to a range of different activities which probably wouldn't be available in a state school, and they might do a bit better in their SATS or whatever. But if you're making decisions about where to send your child based on the finish time of the school day then that's really daft. Many working parents send their child to state school and pay for wraparound care, which is obviously much cheaper than paying private school fees.

Schools are still not there to child mind though. (For the hours you decide YOU want to work!) Even if you would like them to be.

I genuinely don't understand the "school isn't childcare crowd"... Do these people not work? Do they not understand that for a huge number of families, it is impossible to work without childcare in place, and school is a central block of that? Teachers are in loco parentis. Yes, I'm thrilled my kids are learning stuff. But to dismiss the fact that it represents a substantial number of hours a day when someone else is caring for my kids is... weird.

Exactly this - my children’s pre prep and prep schools finish at 3:30 and 4 respectively - any activities beyond that, whether co curricular clubs, sports or just ‘wrap around care’ has to be paid for

school breakfast club is available from 7:30 - but again - extra cost

School is childcare, in our society. That said, I don't think it's only snobbery that makes people dispute that. Most often what they actually mean is that they don't think it should be, which is a good point but not the same one.

as I’ve said above, how does the private sector students and teachers manage a 8-6 day?

I work in an independent. We have children in from 8:15, supervised en masse in the hall by a TA. Nothing organised. Just a play and chat space. We finish at 3:45 - there are sports clubs most evenings, orchestra, choir and the odd club run by teachers (an expectation that we do one a week) to 4:45. There is an afterschool club (needs to be paid for) till 6 - creative activities, help with homework, lego etc. We manage because that's the nature of the game that is independent schools - we need bums on seats or our jobs will disappear. And the kids manage because they're not actually in class doing formalised learning past 3:45.

Then why do schools not look after your children 52 weeks a year then, if they are loco parentis? 🙄

“There needs to be better wraparound care provision.” How about parents look after their children FFS.

Exactly. Back in the day women didnt work and could do all the drop offs and pick ups but the worlds moved on and both parents tend to work ergo would be great if the school day was longer.

If you choose a job course one that works with your children's hours.
School is for learning and it's not child care!

You can't ask that! According to some on here, it's the government's fault that people had children. 🙄

Private schools do not work to standard office times. My DC have been to 2 in London and they both finish at 15.30. There is wraparound till 18.30 but (just like state schools) it is an additional cost on top of standard fees and definitively NOT run by the teachers, but by support staff. The burden on parents is often ironically harder as children start nightly homework at a much younger age and the wraparound care cannot support 1:1 help, leaving you trying to do it at 7pm with a shattered child. A choice I realise but still hard.

Teachers are education not childcare I agree and also their work model relies on having time to mark and lesson plan. Most will work long beyond 5pm to finish this and it has to be remembered will usually start by 7/7.30am.

HOWEVER I agree that the system seems designed to set mothers (parents but particularly mothers) up to fail in the workplace. I am currently struggling with an au pair I can’t afford to make it work. Many other countries have regionally or nationally supported and subsidised models of wraparound run by childcare workers and I feel this is needed in the UK too

No, it’s usually lessons until 4/4.30. But they have more sports built into the day.

I agree with you. I was educated abroad and our school day was 8.20-4.30 with lots of kids hanging around till 5.30pm. I can't remember any of us ever being tired and all of it was 'proper' learning.

I'd be on board with longer days here but not necessarily focused on academic learning. I'd favour a longer lunch break for a start. Kids need to learn to savour (proper) food, hold a discussion at the dinner table rather than be forced to rush.

Longer breaks in general too to chill, foster relationships too.

England has some of the longest school days in Europe. You're mistaking childcare for school