Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

[Onand]

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

Well exactly, poverty begets poverty. With no role models of working people and living on benefits being so normalised, it is no wonder a life on benefits can be trans generalisation. This is again a failure of society and a government issue.

Depends what your definition of working class is?

Given that this was my question, I'm genuinely interested in the alleged problem with "tone".I asked for your opinions - we may align in some areas. Or not. Unless you share your thoughts, we'll never know.

Why do some people lack self-worth to the point where they refuse help that is offered? And how do we prevent them reaching that point?

It is possible to hold two perspectives simultaneously, a view which sometimes people struggle with on MN.

I can feel a great deal of empathy for people on the streets while simultaneously recognising that they can cause negative impacts on others around them. That said, we need to make addiction rehabilitation and treatment of underlying trauma a national priority. It will, like every good initiative, cost a lot upfront BUT will pay for itself across generations.

@SquirrelSoShiny We need to prevent trauma in the first place, not just increase funding for treatment for trauma and addiction. Eradicating poverty is central to this and addressing myriad social inequalities which fuel abuse, trauma and addiction.

Yes and because these cycles are perpetuated across generations every intervention we do now will help reduce future trauma alongside current trauma.

Where do you live? not in the UK I assume as we do not have any consumption rooms. I posted with observations about my own area which is currently awful with visible drug use going on in daylight so I am interested in anything that may alleviate the problems. It may work, it may not work, we will have to see how this one in Scotland goes, I am sure that the people who have approved and the people who will be running it will have looked at the examples in other countries.

‘you are not a racist. Stating the obvious is not racist. Yes, their lives are rubbish. Yes, they are scammers. Yes, they are Roma and my heart breaks for them - having arrived in the UK 20+ years ago, they don't let their children complete their education, they marry off girls under age and they do not use a single opportunity a Western democracy offers. My heart bleeds for their children. There must be so many good teachers, doctors, lawyers, bus drivers, etc. lost because they don't let their children complete their school education and go to university. The fact that the authorities ignore it and say this is 'cultural' is discriminating the children from the Roma families. I actually think that Roma people have been the most abused and discriminated people in the whole history of the world, and that is including slave trade victims, Jews, etc. Yet we sacrifice their children on the altar of political correctness. Shame on us.’

it is exactly the same in France. ‘Traveller sites’ ( nearly all are Roma) which are equipped with water and electricity, paid by the commune, the rubbish is collected by the usual service, the bin bags are left in exactly the same way as all the registered (tax paying ) households.

But, the sites are filthy, drug dealing and prostitution are rife, the children are not in school but are in the supermarkets shoplifting in open sight as they can’t be arrested as ‘too young’. The girls seem to be pregnant as very young teenagers. But the authorities will not ‘interfere’ as that is ‘ a legitimate way of life’. So the children are condemned to very few options, most of which lead to quite short lives. (The situation is worse in France because there is still considerable collective guilt that the Roma were rounded up with the Jews under the Occupation).

Waving that mental health card to excuse homelessness and addiction is mute in my view

“What’s your excuse for being homeless”?
FFS 🤣🤣

The vast majority of people who are homeless have mental health problems. What do you think keeps them homeless? Addiction is often a way of self-medicating mental illness.

Or do you think there’s a bunch of people who wake up one day and think “hey I fancy a drug habit that’ll see me out on the streets”?

Is it any of our business why people choose to not help themselves? Is it any different to those who opt for the ‘off grid living’ concept? Perhaps they deem their self worth by not adhering to the system or rebelling against the authorities?

Ultimately (and I know it’s hard for some to accept on this thread) it may just be that some want to live that life and have nothing to do with their self worth at all.

But the majority of addicts make the choice to try that drug in the first instance themselves- what they do with that experience is entirely on them.

They’re not all innocent angelic victims of big bad society- some of them have terrible pasts and chaotic lives of their own doing. The hostels have to be kept safe for those staying, would you want to be sleeping in a unit with wild alcoholic addicts causing chaos?

Er…. hostels are for homeless people. Given the prevalence of substance abuse among the homeless population banning people on those grounds wouldn’t work.

Some people don’t like to stay in hostels because they don’t feel safe there, if they have a history of being abused in institutions (say a children’s home) or if they are paranoid because of mental illness, so they may stay out on the street.

Are you not understanding what I’m saying?

This is an APPEAL to mums net to delete this thread as it is bordering on hate speech.

I reported it yesterday and they said it didn’t break any guidelines 🙄

’Why have have such grim alleged "lifestyle choices" become apparently more desirable than "fitting in" and being part of "normal society"?
Is it possibly the effects of current economic policy or do you think people just wake up one morning and think "Hmm, I fancy trying my hand at being perceived as a scourge on society" ?

You won’t like this, but….. the Roma gangs are here, just as they are in France and Italy ( in my personal experience) because that is their way of life. Probably not a matter of personal choice, certainly a matter of clan / family pressure. Their presence in UK was greatly increased when Romania joined the EU, and so gave Romania access to the ripe pickings in The Union.So yes, that was a result of ‘policy’.

My WI did a collection of clothes , toiletries, treats etc to take to the homeless distribution centre in our near City. Pretty useless, really, since about 90% of the people they served were non European, non English speaking men who were far too tall for any of the garments, and had different dietary preferences to the donors. So that again is a result of government policy, I suppose.

Wow. Shocker of the year there.

Which guidelines do you think it breaks?

The good things about threads like this is that there is always pushback when people disagree. There's discussion and debate.

The alternative is people never discuss controversial issues, stick only to echo chambers and then are astonished when people vote for Brexit / Trump / Reform. Like they are genuinely astonished because they have basically 'protected' themselves from viewpoints they dislike and so rather than engaging in uncomfortable conversations they have hung out in a bubble of 'right-think'.

I'm going to repeat my post from earlier - it is simultaneously possible to have empathy for people on the streets while also recognising the impact they have on others.

The one thing EVERYONE probably agrees on is the need for better services for mental health and substance misuse.

@SquirrelSoShiny You are missing the point. The OP and several others are not interested in having a nuanced discussion. They are using inflammatory and derogatory language in order to denigrate vulnerable groups; homeless people and those who are substance dependent. There is NO empathy from these posts. It absolutely is hate speech and it’s gross.

I have posted at length about the realities of mental health and addiction services, as well as the role trauma plays in homelessness. There has been no acknowledgment of these posts. It only incites more vitriol and Daily Fail statements about beggars and their BMWs. This thread has been thoroughly depressing and I’m out, I am heartened by a few brilliant and compassionate posters though.

Amen to that.

Totally agree with everything@SquirrelSoShiny said.

I think attitudes like yours are what stifles meaningful debate about difficult issues.

The many examples on this thread show how complex this issue is. I’d say that homelessness/aggresive begging is an issue where both points of view are valid. ( I’d actually say hidden homelessness isn’t part of this discussion- rather this is about some of the most damaged, chaotic individuals who cause a nuisance on the streets because they refuse shelter, support or help)

yes, these people deserve our compassion. But that doesn’t stop many of them being very challenging individuals. They don’t limit the chaos to their own lives and there’s lots of stories of good Samaritans learning this the hard way.

some people on this thread have no tolerance for it, others think we should help them.

both views are valid.

They have 2 of those im my city.
Peple can also get their needles exchanged, get food, shower and clean there clothes.
Some also offer sleeping arrangements or drug testing. Since they can't access hostels it is a huge help.
Homeless addicts are extremely physically and mentally vulnerable. They are also hard to reach and there is often a huge shame attached to asking for help.

Yes because homelessness only began 14 years ago!! Let's just blame Boris lol