Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

[Onand]

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

So if my 11 year old wants to drop out of school, that’s up to them to make that decision is it?

Or if I want them to drop out so they can clean my house and cook my meals for me?

There is a lot of othering going on in this thread as it is easier to draw distance from people and focus on differences, rather than accepting the vulnerability and uncertainty that many of us could face homelessness if we experienced a spate of bad luck and poor circumstances. It feels safer to demonise these people, label them as ‘addicts’ and cast moral judgements. Nobody sets out in life wanting to be homeless and substance dependent. Nobody should be homeless in this day and age, this is a government failing and it is a disgrace. People need our compassion and understanding, not bitterness and sanctimony. What a horrible thread, especially at Christmas.

The idea that there are thousands of people pretending to be homeless in order to gain a few pounds is preposterous and patently false. This is the same as the Daily Fail benefit scrounger narrative, when the vast majority of benefit claimants are genuine. It is hilarious that people genuinely think those ‘pretending’ to be homeless are doing so to fund their lavish lifestyles! Have you seen the pittance people on the streets get given? Have you any idea what living on the streets does to your self worth and sense of self? Importantly do you really think any well adjusted person with their faculties in tact would consider a career in pretending to be homeless? There is an astounding amount of ignorance of the complexity of mental health in this thread and the interplay between poverty, mental health and addiction. Life on the streets is deeply traumatic - no one would choose this. I have worked with people who struggled with homelessness, addiction and trauma - who managed to improve their lives by sheer tenacity, the postcode lottery of being able to access services for support and the smallest glimmer of hope for a different life. It was a genuine privilege to be a part of individuals journeys to a place of security and tentative self worth. Their stories and insights will forever stay with me, because often people have faced unimaginable horrors to have led them to such dire circumstances- it is not a simple matter of ‘choice’ or getting a free meal every week being a solution.

Just be bloody grateful life has been good enough to you that you aren’t sleeping rough this Christmas, taking substances that contain god knows what, just to momentarily relieve you of the pain. I know I will be.

This thread has a strong whiff of Tory about it. The same old boring rhetoric of all blame being put upon the vulnerable, and absolutely no responsibility to those who are in a position of power to change things. Homelessness and addiction are social problems that require systemic multifaceted solutions - by the government. Let’s ignore the real economic drains on society, the ultra rich with their offshore banking and tax evasion. This costs the economy an awful lot more than people sleeping on the streets. But I guess the elite ultra rich are aspirational aren’t they, and the blame for everything always falls to the most vulnerable in society. We all need to wake up!

I agree with a previous posters suggestion that the OP should spend Christmas volunteering, perhaps then they would find a new perspective and shred of empathy.

What a weird post. Life is more nuanced than that.

It’s probably none of my business what you choose for your 11 year old, or what value your family puts on education etc.

In that… they’re not my 11 year old.

With the obvious exceptions, people can do whatever they want in their own homes.

It's about choice, if your education stops at age 11 because this is what your parents choose you are then denied the choices that completing education can bring, you are less able to earn a reasonable wage, to have choices about where and how you live. Imagine if the cessation of formal education for 11 year old girls was the cultural norm throughout the UK, people would rghlty be outraged. I used to chat to one of the lads that lived next door to me, his English was excellent, he was intelligent but had dropped out of education at age 14 and he had never even been into the city centre, i used to ask him if he'd like to go to town, to mix with other young people and he said he would and he looked really wistful, he stays within the family as the rest of them do not speak English and he was their conduit to wider society. I guess my argument one of taking advantage of the things that the country you have chosen to live in has to offer.We have a large Roma population where I live so I am speaking from the perspective of the things that I have observed. I also have a friend who teaches in the area and has told me that the deliverate removal of girls from formal schooling is a significant safeguarding issue as the school has to try and track these children

Tjis is a joke right? Satire?

This*

On the other hand, I have heard terrible stories of fake beggars. One man in a nearby city simply sits on the pavement looking pitiful without saying anything, and people give him money. But he's not homeless or a drug addict, and when the day ends he dresses in normal clothes and boasts about his large earnings.

@WishinAndHopin

Just engage your imagination for a moment and think about what it would take for you to sit on a cold, dirty city pavement and spend hours not speaking and looking pitiful. No phone, no conversation, no shelter. How much would you have to earn to make that a viable and attractive use of your time?

Please; think before you repeat rubbish.

this is interesting, https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/22/uk-to-open-its-first-safe-drug-consumption-room-amid-soaring-deaths?CMP=share_btn_url. I have seen people shooting up in the alleys in my area and once saw a guy using puddle water to cook up a hit out on the local recreation ground. Comsumption rooms save lives and also help to reduce the impact of public drug use.

Yet on another homelessness thread where people are begging, anyone who says that they give food rather than money are pilloried. There is is a post on this thread from someone who says they are a doctor, who gives money because, walk a day in their shoes/if that's what they need.

There is a huge amount of sanctimony on this thread. I hope that everyone here is actually doing something rather than just finger-wagging. No need for fanfare, just quietly doing what they can. Don't assume that those of us on the 'other side' haven't and don't continue to support.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Can you genuinely not see the difference between giving a homeless person food or a bottle of whisky? You are surely being obtuse.

In my part of London, the beggars are organised by gangs, with identical signs, and you often see them being collected by cars in the evening. I don't give them money as I don't want to support gangs, and possibly trafficking. It's not a lack of empathy, just not wanting to support crime (I assume it's illegal to run gangs of people begging for money under false pretences?). I donate to registered charities instead.

The ‘check your privilege’ retort is a nonsense and loaded with assumptions.

I see the professional beggars as well. They have the same signs - ending in ‘god bless.’

They have been seen being ‘dropped to work’ by gangs. The dogs are passed around and the signs are usually written by one of the gang hence they are identical.

Every day I pass one particular man, young with clear skin and eyes, who cycles to his spot in full rain gear and his prop (sleeping bag) strapped on the bike. I have also seen him getting on the train with his bike. Partner has seen him getting off in a nice area.

People give him food a lot of which can be seen in a nearby lane.

There are many videos showing the ‘pretend’ homeless on YouTube.

We should be discussing the ‘fake’ homeless without being accused of whatever the latest insult is by people so determined to virtue signal that they are no longer able to see what’s right before their eyes.

It’s quite an extreme position IMO to think parents should be able to permanently remove their daughter from education at 11, because they don’t personally believe she needs it.

I do volunteer. At this time of year, we (adults in the family) don’t “do” gifts just a token something for the children. What we do do, is places for Crisis at Christmas. It might be just 2 places. It used to be 4 or 6 but funds are tight.

I also work for a world charity and fundraiser, year round.

@Onand I think you sound very comfortable and I hope it remains so. God forbid, you should need the kindness of strangers.

I once saw a guy on the same train as us go into the loo and get changed from normal clothes into ' homeless gear ' then off he trotted to do his work for the day.

I don't mind the people who just sit asking, if people are stupid enough to give them money then that's up to them. But something seriously needs to be done about aggressive buggers who are rife in some areas. It's bloody terrifying coming across someone like that and they get away with it......it also angers me that genuine homeless people are being ignored (( I did used to give many years ago buy don't now )) especially when the weather is crap like it is at the mo.

And I'll probably get pelted with rocks for saying this but people who come from the EU (( Romania especially)) and doss round begging and being a general pain in the arse should be rounded up and sent home. They're a pain in the absolute arse and I for one am sick of playing dodge the pickpocket. Hell we have enough home grown rogues and theives without being a playground for gangs hundreds of miles away too. If they're here to work then that's fine. But those who aren't should be deported and barred from returning.

Anyone who gives these folk money is a menace.

Donate to charity, don't give it to addicts.

@TheThreeCheesesOfTheApocalypse44 reality check for you- firstly- what you 'mind' is really irrelevant so keep it to yourself. No one cares what you 'mind'. It's not important. Second of all, even if you little anecdote about a man getting changed on a train is true, it's one example out weighed by millions of others and it's an extremely unhelpful narrative to be spinning.

Two tier policing.

@User135644 addiction is an absolute affliction from hell that no one chooses. Think yourself lucky you havent had to experience its horrors

Tell you what I do mind.......having my bag slashed whilst stood in a queue for the London Eye because some sneaky fucker thought they were entitled to the contents in it........I mean their only reward would have been a load of capri sun's and a few bags of crisps because my phone etc was in my front coat pocket.

I also mind being harassed when I dare to get money out from a cash machine. I mind lots of things actually.......And all the bleeding heart handwringers in the world won't change that. Compassion soon dries up when you're the mug on the receiving end of this shit and living with the reality of their actions.

Tis the season to hold the homeless in contempt 😐

Like people who feed the seagulls and the like. Just makes it more of a nuisance for everyone else.

This. I want to believe it’s a troll but some of the responses here make me wonder.

Giving people money to feed their addiction is not helping them. And you're just funding organised crime.

Give the money to a homeless or mental health charity instead.