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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

613 replies

Onand · 21/12/2024 07:54

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

OP posts:
Plastictrees · 21/12/2024 13:39

oakleaffy · 21/12/2024 13:35

Dean's picture is here : A genuinely lovely person.

I know of this person. There’s a real lack of specialist services to help those with addiction / mental health issues/ homelessness- often these services aren’t joined up and people are bounced between them, that’s if they are picked up by services in the first place. There are so many barriers in place which prevent engagement, and a lack of joined up care and communication between agencies including the NHS and third sector. What services there are have been on their knees due to chronic underfunding. There really isn’t ’a lot of help available’ according to some on this thread, I have to wonder how engaged with reality these people are.

I worked as a psychologist in addiction services for several years.

Verydemure · 21/12/2024 13:42

AlertSnail · 21/12/2024 11:11

I work with those who are homeless and also those with drug and alcohol issues. If you had even the slightest knowledge of the backstory of some of those who you are denegrating, I would hope you would change your mind. It is not a "choice", it is overwhelmingly a consequence of a series of horrible events in life, usually from a young age. Have some compassion, it is generally an absolutely awful way of life and the stigma from society (such as displayed here) is one reason why it is so hard to get out of. I'm really sickened by the attitude displayed here.

you make good points @AlertSnail but you’ll also know, addicts don’t just wreck their own lives but often everyone around them. They can be very difficult and challenging people to help and also to like for the reasons @Spangledangle gives in the post directly beneath you..

I think you also have to respect ( and show compassion) to people who don’t want to help, or find their presence annoying. It’s not always through ignorance- often the opposite. Often they have a back story that makes them have little patience for homeless drug addicts. If you’ve been brought up by a character like that, it can be galling to hear people have sympathy for the type of person who made you childhood a chaotic hell!

Dungareesarecool · 21/12/2024 13:43

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/12/2024 13:26

Patronising, copycat twaddle with the 'check your privilege'.

If you want to give money to women in the rain then do it, you need nobody else's permission. You won't get applause from me though; by doing that you are keeping these women out in the rain. If nobody gave them money it wouldn't be worthwhile.

I prefer to give any money that I want to give to the charities that help - Shelter, Salvation Army and any local ones. You do as you like but disabuse yourself of the notion that you 'know best'. You don't.

Hear hear!

Itsoneofthose · 21/12/2024 13:44

So proud of all of those on mums net coming out on defence of some of societies most vulnerable. Reassuring how many good people there are out there.

oakleaffy · 21/12/2024 13:51

Itsoneofthose · 21/12/2024 13:44

So proud of all of those on mums net coming out on defence of some of societies most vulnerable. Reassuring how many good people there are out there.

Not so good if your money {cash donations} kills people by paying for their overdose or furthering their liver damage.

A warm fuzzy feeling for the donor for a few seconds?

Charities who work on the coal face with addicts and alcoholics say not to give money directly.

Astrabees · 21/12/2024 13:55

Funding drug addiction and alcoholism? As a former criminal defence solicitor I am well aware that addicts suffer terrible symptoms if they cannot get a fix, often remedied by shoplifting. If they spend my money on drugs or alcohol that is their choice, they will feel a little better without breaking the law. Exactly what is a charity going to do for them now, this morning - nothing. It is patronising and condescending to treat individuals in this way, where choices we have are not for them.

BobbyBiscuits · 21/12/2024 13:56

@Hwi thank you. I agree with what you say. It's terrible how they've been persecuted. To the point they're being trafficked and abused by gangs to beg for pennies or sell big issue and hand over all their earnings. The world is a cruel fucking place. Sadly x

Onand · 21/12/2024 13:56

Itsoneofthose · 21/12/2024 13:44

So proud of all of those on mums net coming out on defence of some of societies most vulnerable. Reassuring how many good people there are out there.

Let’s spin that around and see who is vulnerable when you’re walking home on an evening and there’s a whole group of them out of their minds vomiting and pissing all over the shop doorways and accosting people for money and getting angry if they get nothing.

OP posts:
Gogogo12345 · 21/12/2024 13:56

Wheresthebeach · 21/12/2024 13:05

Best to give to shelter and not give cash. You can be sympathetic to genuine homeless people but aware of gangs and grifters. We had a local homeless man we all gave to, at the street bbq someone popped over to the train station and invited him over. Charming guy, got lots of good and help from the street. Turns out he was a complete con artist. Nice flat in Fulham, all over the papers went he was charged. I can have sympathy for those struggling and be angry at those taking advantage at the same time

In 2017 our local football club owner offered jobs and accomodations to2 homeless guys he had got to know.

However within a couple of weeks one had stolen 5k worth of equipment and the other was doing drugs on the premises

Some people obviously don't want help

InCheesusITrust · 21/12/2024 14:00

BobbyBiscuits · 21/12/2024 13:56

@Hwi thank you. I agree with what you say. It's terrible how they've been persecuted. To the point they're being trafficked and abused by gangs to beg for pennies or sell big issue and hand over all their earnings. The world is a cruel fucking place. Sadly x

The issue also is thay the trafficking and abuse is by their own in most cases ime.
Most of the time when gangmasters and traffickers of EE people were caught, Romas were involved, often ringleaders

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 21/12/2024 14:01

WestwardHo1 · 21/12/2024 10:24

Yes I realise that, but I think this thread shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue of begging. And people rush to show how "nice" they are in comparison with the unspeakable person who objects to stepping over people in doorways who are hounding her for money. Have a read of @housethatbuiltme 's post above.

I’m sorry for housethatbuiltme‘s experience, and hope her life is back on track. But her experience of homelessness is just that, Hers and hers alone. There are all differing scenarios for homeless people and they don’t all fit that description, and yes, some of them do have addiction issues. Doesn’t mean they aren’t genuinely homeless. I’m volunteering again this Christmas, taking bedding to and from Church overnight shelters and signposting them to those in need. No matter how much you try, some people will not/ con not take up the offer and so choose to sleep in doorways. They aren’t any less deserving of help, their reasons for being in this situation are many and varied.

Dungareesarecool · 21/12/2024 14:04

Onand · 21/12/2024 13:56

Let’s spin that around and see who is vulnerable when you’re walking home on an evening and there’s a whole group of them out of their minds vomiting and pissing all over the shop doorways and accosting people for money and getting angry if they get nothing.

I actually found that posters initial comment slightly ambiguous because lot of people are particularly “vulnerable” for various reasons, and they are often the exact ones that street beggars will target.

Back in 2015 my friend was a young, single mother recently escaped a tough childhood then a violent drunk ex partner and was then living with her 2 year old child in a new city (London) and she would get anxiety at all the men approaching her on her street in south London. Who was the vulnerable one? Not just the men surely!

I’m ND and although I’m fairly streetwise I look younger than my age and give off an air of vulnerability apparently which is partly why I get approached by them a lot. Growing up my friends used to call me a “weirdo magnet” 😵‍💫

I don’t think most people are dunking on homeless people or even street beggars. We all want a way to solve the problem, some of us just don’t agree giving money directly helps or is wise, and also think we need to have empathy for those who are intimidated by people asking for money.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/12/2024 14:04

oakleaffy · 21/12/2024 13:51

Not so good if your money {cash donations} kills people by paying for their overdose or furthering their liver damage.

A warm fuzzy feeling for the donor for a few seconds?

Charities who work on the coal face with addicts and alcoholics say not to give money directly.

But what do those charities and agencies know, eh? It's not as if they're actually at the coal face dealing with addicted people and offering them real help.

It's the virtue signalling posters on mumsnet, who wring their hands, group all of these 'poor souls' into one homogenous group, saying "Something must be done", whilst heckling and berating others who don't buy into their simplistic, finger-wagging. These are the true 'champions'. I don't know what it is that they actually do^ but, I'm sure it must be something?

I've done the 'Big Issue' supporting, most if not all weeks. I won't do it again but I won't criticise anybody who does. The important thing to do is give if you can - but for my money that is the charities and agencies who know what they're doing and are in a position to actually help.

Verydemure · 21/12/2024 14:09

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 21/12/2024 14:01

I’m sorry for housethatbuiltme‘s experience, and hope her life is back on track. But her experience of homelessness is just that, Hers and hers alone. There are all differing scenarios for homeless people and they don’t all fit that description, and yes, some of them do have addiction issues. Doesn’t mean they aren’t genuinely homeless. I’m volunteering again this Christmas, taking bedding to and from Church overnight shelters and signposting them to those in need. No matter how much you try, some people will not/ con not take up the offer and so choose to sleep in doorways. They aren’t any less deserving of help, their reasons for being in this situation are many and varied.

But she is not just talking about her experience. She’s also offering a perspective on what she saw on the streets and the different characters and types.

she had a unique perspective on the motivations and mindset of the people she met, and actually makes the point herself that people met the challenges differently.

fwiw - I have no issue and huge sympathy with many sleeping rough, but there is an issue with very aggressive begging and anti social behaviour.

people are completely within their rights to find it frightening, unpleasant and annoying.

BobbyBiscuits · 21/12/2024 14:09

@InCheesusITrust yes, I agree. It feels like some Roma who are successful abuse and traffic those of their own culture with lower social and financial status. But I guess that's sadly not exclusive to Roma.

Plastictrees · 21/12/2024 14:10

Onand · 21/12/2024 13:56

Let’s spin that around and see who is vulnerable when you’re walking home on an evening and there’s a whole group of them out of their minds vomiting and pissing all over the shop doorways and accosting people for money and getting angry if they get nothing.

Your energy would be better spent campaigning for more funding for services for those with addiction problems / homelessness, so that no one needs to live on the streets in this day and age.

Some shameful attitudes from some posters; judgemental and narrow mindedGod forbid you ever become vulnerable; the gap between ‘us and them’ is not as wide as you think.

SquirrelSoShiny · 21/12/2024 14:10

MissMoneyFairy · 21/12/2024 10:39

You seem to pick on and despise substance abusers, any particular reason you hate them so much. Have you ever considered opening up your home to a homeless person or offering them a hit meal and bed for the night especially when it's really cold outside.

Our late friend (vulnerable himself he had bipolar disorder) did exactly this. He was rewarded by having his head kicked in and his house was robbed. The 'poor young man' he invited to stay overnight hung about for a week and invited his mates to stay too. They were like a pack of hyenas.

I know people are well-intentioned writing this stuff but there's a reason it's best left to professionals ESPECIALLY when people are homeless due to substance misuse and mental illness. Give to the charities who specialise in this. It's safer for everyone.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/12/2024 14:13

Plastictrees · 21/12/2024 14:10

Your energy would be better spent campaigning for more funding for services for those with addiction problems / homelessness, so that no one needs to live on the streets in this day and age.

Some shameful attitudes from some posters; judgemental and narrow mindedGod forbid you ever become vulnerable; the gap between ‘us and them’ is not as wide as you think.

I imagine you're expending your energy on that also, PlasticTrees? Or are you just piling in to criticise the OP?

Who are you to tell anybody else what they should be spending their time, money or energy on? As if you have any insight into what other people do when they're not blethering away on here.

SparklyTurtle · 21/12/2024 14:15

daisychain01 · 21/12/2024 08:57

Don't worry, @Nowherehere1 Ive reported it. The OP clearly wants the attention, and doesn't care they get it. Zero empathy, how low down can you go.

What have you actually reported it for? It doesn't break any rules.

You can't tell people they can't talkna out things because you think it's mean and just get everything you don't like deleted. As evidenced by the fact the thread is still standing so MN hasn't deleted it from your report.

Yesitisnotthatitbe · 21/12/2024 14:17

SatansBobbleheadedDashboardOrnament · 21/12/2024 09:04

Ahhh fucking hell. 😂

Our Christmas gift to you shall be the waves of outrage you are so desperately looking for, OP.

Waves of outrage eh? Check the poll results

Plastictrees · 21/12/2024 14:17

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/12/2024 14:13

I imagine you're expending your energy on that also, PlasticTrees? Or are you just piling in to criticise the OP?

Who are you to tell anybody else what they should be spending their time, money or energy on? As if you have any insight into what other people do when they're not blethering away on here.

Yes I absolutely campaign to eradicate poverty, as well as many other societal issues. This is particularly close to my heart as I have worked in addiction services for several years and I am well aware of the issues faced and the complexity thereof.

Not everyone is as bitter, judgemental and narrow-minded as the OP. Or you apparantly, as my post seems to have got under your skin.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/12/2024 14:20

I think you have delusions of relevance there, PlasticTrees. I wasn't soliciting your worthiness credentials, I wouldn't believe them and I really don't care what you say you do.

Unless you are a really good serum, you don't have what it takes to get under my skin.

Plastictrees · 21/12/2024 14:24

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Then why respond at all? It clearly doesn’t take much to get under your skin!

Merry Christmas to you 😁

SatansBobbleheadedDashboardOrnament · 21/12/2024 14:26

Yesitisnotthatitbe · 21/12/2024 14:17

Waves of outrage eh? Check the poll results

Gosh the polls have called it. I’m so sorry. I’m

MistressoftheDarkSide · 21/12/2024 14:30

While a good number of people posting here grasp that homelessness, addiction, mental health issues and catastrophic life events can bring about a perfect storm for some individuals making them "difficult" to work with and that the overall issue is complex, it saddens me that quite a few want to look at them as almost another species.

Maybe some have been classed as "dysfunctional" their entire lives, and have absorbed a message since childhood that they are "unworthy" which will make them hostile and learn to live in a survival mode which leads to a self perpetuating cycle of defensiveness and disengagement due to inured lack of trust in people in general, and authority in particular. I think it's fair to say care leavers can be in this cohort due to the failures of overstretched services etc and often massive lack of proper oversight and mentoring.

Some will be people whose lives have been torn apart by catastrophic events such as bereavement and job loss and family breakdown and who never get the time and space to recover, so learn unhealthy coping mechanisms.

Some may indeed be part of criminal gangs, but what does it say about society that it produces people who feel safer operating in such high risk and unhealthy circumstances than asking for or accepting "legitimate" help?

I think looking at our developing society, culture and the policies of successive governments play a massive part in all this.

Accessing any kind of support when in crisis is mired in bureaucracy and having dealt recently with our local council regarding homelessness this year, it drove me to distraction although I'm allegedly reasonably intelligent and capable.

The current emphasis on "resilience" and "personal responsibility" is all well and good, but it overlooks the difficulties posed by the ever changing economy, job market, and reliance on being technologically up to speed - it's easier now than ever to find oneself out of the loop and harder than ever to get back on the merry go round.

It is ironic that some posts here have lambasted apparent "marketing strategies" allegedly employed by some of the "homeless" when the entire world is geared up to encouraging sustaining oneself by whatever means possible. It's the very definition of capitalism, and we all buy into it.

Yes, we have growing social problems, but the undertone speaks more to morality for alot of people, hence the phenomenon of the "feckless undeserving poor". Lack of money is posited as a moral failure and how money is spent is less scrutinised at high levels of wealth while at the "poor end" spending is harshly judged. Yet in terms of addiction and the damage that is done, whether it's Bollinger and cocaine consumed in mansions to excess, or White Lightening and smack on the streets, the fallout is the same - it's just that one is visible in the doorways of empty shops in our towns, the other is hidden and excused to a degree simply by dint if financial disparity.

Everyone bleeds. We are all the same under the skin. We can kid ourselves all we like that some fabled moral superiority will never see us "choosing" a lifestyle detrimental to ourselves/ society. But you'd be surprised how the mighty can fall.

The people who are the subject of this thread may have had hopes dreams and aspirations, families and businesses and careers and may have lost them due to the cruel twists of fate. Or they may never have had the opportunity for such grandiose notions. They may be aggressive and unpleasant as we all can be when we've got our back against the wall and can't find the exit.

We can choose how to help if we want to, or not, but please, enough with the de-humanising and othering of people, flesh and blood people, just like us at the fundamental level.

And perhaps direct your ire at the system which can never be perfect but is nowhere near functional these days and ask how that has been at best allowed to happen, or at worst deliberately engineered to create division and divert attention from some of the self serving policies of politicians in lockstep with corporate entities.

And as I've had long posts like this dismissed as word salad in the past, I offer you mayonnaise or the dressing of your choice to aid digestion.

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