No elbows on the table rule is arbitrary and not relevant in 2024

[ShortWide]

I was taught not to put my elbows on the table when eating, but I have decided that as long as I don’t encroach on my fellow diners’ space, this is not a problem. Not sure what everyone else thinks though! I could definitely be persuaded to change my mind on this if the majority of people would be horrified by this lack of manners.

YABU - you should never have elbows on the table

YANBU - elbows on the table is no big deal these days

It comes from a time when working class tables were unstable and likely to fall if a lot of weight was put on them.

Not usually an issue now so YANBU. I think It's a bloody stupid rule-what difference does it make really? Same as knife and fork in middle of plate once finished too.

I've never understand why it was a rule, so I've never followed it!

No one cares anymore about that do they.

I suppose a more modern equivalent is no phones at the table

yes and no. I do it, but I’m also aware that it probably doesn’t look good to some. I do it cos I’m having a hard enough time following the conversation!

Never understood it either. I always have my elbows on the table.

Glad I’m not alone in this. I’ve just had the odd moment in a restaurant where I’ve realised I’m the only person doing it and felt suddenly self conscious.

I think it originally was also because if you were being served by servants they wouldn't be able to reach and put a plate down if you had your elbows on the table. In restaurants it makes it harder for wait staff to reach your plate.

I think it's largely irrelevant now but I still don't do it, having been told not to as a child.

YANBU

Most table manners have a clear purpose but this one I will let go.

In the grand scheme of table manners, elbows are least concerning. Phones at table, eating noisily or with your mouth open, pointing at people with your knife when holding forth... All egregious. Elbows, fine.

My family will attest that I’m a bit of a nightmare when it comes to etiquette and table manners, but elbows on the table is not something I’d even notice.

Takes up space. Your arms will project out as you try to use your knife and fork.
Likely to put pressure on your side of the table.
You are likely to hunch forward over your food.

It gives the impression of someone closed, hunched forward and concentrated on shovelling down their food and not engaging with the rest of the table in what is supposed to be a communal experience.

Positives. You are less likely to spill gravy on your lap as there is less gap between the table and you. The rest of the family may ignore you whilst you shovel down the food which may be a bonus.

Our bodies aren’t designed for sitting, which causes the glutes to switch off, which in turn makes the rest of the smaller postural muscles lazy. Keeping elbows unsupported forces you to engage core and postural muscles which in turn holds space for the gut. If you slump, you put pressure on the stomach area, contributing to digestive issues.

It would be better to squat but that’s definitely not considered appropriate restaurant etiquette.

With my grandfather on this - I can still hear him saying " All joints on the table will be carved!"

Haha love this. But love having my elbows on the table more!

It’s uncomfortable to not put your elbows on the table

I think it looks a bit slovenly and ill-mannered. Doesn’t happen in this house.

There are some other technical etiquette things that could be discussed that don't actually do anyone else any harm but could be taken as a negative :

i) Lifting up your plate to slurp/drink gravy directly off it at the end of the meal.

ii) Wiping your mouth with the back of your hand and letting out a loud belch after you finish.

iii) Scooping up your entire meal with a giant spoon because it is easier than a knife and fork, and leaves one hand free for the smartphone.

Elbows on the table can convey a relaxed attitude but also forceful or demanding or even arrogant. So depends upon who you are dining with and what impression you want to make!! If you are eating with people who already know you, in an informal way, it matters less.

BUT if men do it, it does look like manspreading as they take up so much more room than women! So maybe not. Don’t want to be squeezed in at the table between two big bloke elbows. Women and children I don’t mind so much.

The knife and fork is a message to the waiter.

Also saves the hostess starting to clear plates when one guest is about to help themselves to seconds.

I think it stems from Middle Ages where people sat at trestle tables where the top wasn’t secured to the legs. So, any pressure on the tops at the edges ( elbows) were likely to topple the table towards you.

It’s an out dated etiquette but one that’s instilled in me so would feel self conscious doing it.

There are far worse manners out there though like phones at the table, shovelling in food, talking with mouth full, loud eating.

I’m easy on elbows but can’t bear people who put their hand(s) over their mouth when they eat? Why?? I’ve just seen you put the food in your mouth so I’m hardly going to be surprised, let alone offended, that you’re now eating it? Made even worse by the uber-avoiders putting down their cutlery between every mouthful just to facilitate the wafty hand signalling.
Don’t you realise that you’re drawing more attention to the fact that you’re eating by constantly sticking your hand in front of your face?

And some of these things will be perfectly appropriate and seen as respectful in many cultures of the world. So pretty much any cultural etiquette is largely pointless from that perspective.
I've been brought up with solid table manners but I very much ignore the elbow rule as an adult. I don't eat with elbows spread on the table but I am happy to rest my elbows on the table between courses.

Same here!

A lot of the etiquette rules are arbitrary.

But there is some point to me in setting some sort of common standard.

For example one person might be happy with having elbows on the table. Another eating with their mouth open.

Everyone conforms to generally acceptable standards to avoid upsetting other people and to agree some sort of acceptable basis for the group so that the shared experience can be enjoyed.

If everyone is allowed to do what they want and not care about anyone else the whole thing just becomes a free for all with people saying screw everyone else, it's what I want to do that's important. And that lowers the quality of the experience for everyone as the pleasant dining experience turns more into a pack of animals at feeding time with everyone doing stuff that may well piss everyone else off.

Of course some people may be up for that. And the boundaries that are set generally depend on the group and the setting.

Why is it so important for those who identify as middle-class, then?

I never had a flat large enough to fit a table in myself. Problem solved, I guess.