Page 14 | DO NOT give your kid a smartphone this Christmas

Firey40 · 2024-12-20T08:54:25+00:00

[[https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDd86TftyNT?igsh=MTZueGVicm1udDllNw%3D%3D https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDd86TftyNT/?igsh=MTZueGVicm1udDllNw==]] The evidence is overwhelming. Their brains are only young once. We might not have known before….. but we know now. STOP GIVING KIDS SMARTPHONES

hihelenhi · 20/12/2024 16:37

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 16:22

Correlation isn't causation.

DH and I have a strange point of view. I'm older than him. I was actively online from age 18 meeting people. He was from age 14.

We've seen the dregs of some of this first hand. Absolutely awful stuff.

But equally we also know that real world connections are important and theirs huge questions about parenting.

In our 20s we were seeing 14 year olds having contact with adults in situations we thought dodgy. We raised questions when others didn't.

We are now in our 40s. DS is going to have to go some to get around our understanding of things and the experience we've had.

We have friends who remain at a state of naïvety that we had at 18 and 14. We are jaded and cynical.

We've lived this from analogue and digital worlds.

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I know it isn't - it was one of the points I made above.

There's a lot that needs to be done regarding safety and improving that but also teaching and guidance about online safety to help equip kids with that same cynicism/savvy. And lots, esp older kids, are asking for that kind of guidance bc they have a lot of the same worries as their parents (esp on 'contact' from bad actors, seeing things they really don't want to and aren't' ready for - that's a big issue and has come up in surveys too, as has the wish to be more involved in the debates about it), but a lot less experience. I just would rather kids were given info and the savvy so they can be streetwise rather than the wrapping in cotton wool approach. It DOESN'T mean denial of the issues, heads in the sand, or that everything's totally fine, but more of a focus on the most harmful aspects. Much of which are extensions of the harmful aspects of life outside of the internet also. As I say, the digital arena is not going to go away, so what should be focused on so it is best managed.

Tarraleah · 20/12/2024 16:38

Startinganew32 · 20/12/2024 16:32

Yes, I suspect that those who think it’s fine for their 8 year old to have a smartphone and that anyone not on Snapchat will be bullied to death have no clue of what children actually look at. And they do not tell their parents - even if you think you have the closest relationship with your DC, they won’t tell you honestly what they have seen or gotten up to.

My friend has done a study for work about internet porn and it’s horrific. They are so so young when they become exposed to it and they grow up thinking it’s normal to send nudes and engage in anal sex.

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Back in the real world... people are aware of what can be found on internet

but they also know how to parent their kids and supervise them. Having a smart phone doesn't mean they are allowed to be on it all night unsupervised in their room you know?

But MN is the place where sleepovers are banned, every single male is a potential rapist and murderer, so I am not sure anyone come here for sensible advice.

My friend has done a study on the way to check what kids are up to on their phone, we all have friends...

Startinganew32 · 20/12/2024 16:40

Tarraleah · 20/12/2024 16:38

Back in the real world... people are aware of what can be found on internet

but they also know how to parent their kids and supervise them. Having a smart phone doesn't mean they are allowed to be on it all night unsupervised in their room you know?

But MN is the place where sleepovers are banned, every single male is a potential rapist and murderer, so I am not sure anyone come here for sensible advice.

My friend has done a study on the way to check what kids are up to on their phone, we all have friends...

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One person on here said that she knows her child is safe because she uses a particular parental control app. A quick google shows that that particular app is extremely easy to disable by a child without the parent realising. So that person does not know what their child is looking at.

Urbanpomade · 20/12/2024 16:43

Smartphones are part of life now and I do feel that a child could be left out, at secondary school age, without one. I also like the tracking abilities once they're walking to school alone.

However, I do think no social media, parental control apps and phones downstairs at night are essential for sensible, safe use of smartphones for tweens and teens.

I don't think it's the phone that's the issue, more if there's a lack of control and boundaries around their use.

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 16:54

WasThatACorner · 20/12/2024 11:06

The thing is, you can not get your child a smartphone and they still be exposed to all the same things because other kids have smartphones.

OR.... You could allow your child to have a smartphone, put boundaries around when they have access, what they have access to and keep an open dialogue with them. It's much harder to actually parent rather than ban the things that are causing an issue.

Hilarious that your evidence for this rant was social media though. Pot, meet kettle.

Hilarious that the whole point of this post is missed on you. If we actually worked collectively and no one bought their kids a smartphone at 10 years old, then we wouldn’t have to worry about what they saw on ‘other kids’ smartphones.

People saying that kids are unable to function in today’s world without a smartphone is really sad. And to say they become more independent with one is downright ridiculous. They are gradually becoming the most dependent generation possible. Unable to tell the time, read a map, wait for a bus (or anything!) without knowing exactly when it will arrive or enjoy the moment without photo-documenting it. Dependency at its worst and most dangerous. This generation can’t cope without a phone to distract and entertain them. And the irony that we are all discussing this on social media rather than doing anything more meaningful is definitely not lost on me.

I know what my New Year’s resolution will be.

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 16:55

And no one. But no one. Needs to be tracked.

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 16:56

Startinganew32 · 20/12/2024 16:33

Also nearly all parental control apps can be circumvented fairly easily so those people who are reassured by having them have no idea what their kids look at.

DH works in tech. Good luck DS. If he beats DH an excellent career awaits.

Winter41 · 20/12/2024 16:58

I agree. But sadly its really hard to do. We took my sons off him for a good few months after some poor choices, but found he became isolated from his friendship group. All socialising happens online, meet ups are arranged in whatsapp groups etc. it needs some very tough legislation to tackle the problem.

Pottedpalm · 20/12/2024 16:58

Tinybirdie · 20/12/2024 09:34

My 11 year old has one. She chats and video calls with friends mostly. No Facebook, tiktok insta etc allowed though. I'm totally fine with it. She's a sensible kid who understands the negative impact and sticks to the set limits we have

Said many the parent of a 10/11 year old.
14 upwards, that’s a whole new ball game.

Startinganew32 · 20/12/2024 17:00

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 16:56

DH works in tech. Good luck DS. If he beats DH an excellent career awaits.

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Yes good for YOU. But The majority of people do not work in tech and often think they are being entirely sensible and don’t realise that their child has found their way around the restrictions and they are none the wiser.

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 17:03

scalt · 20/12/2024 14:36

And when poor little Lisa Simpson tried to do this, when she travelled to a museum by bus, the driver tapped the sign saying "Do Not Speak To Driver". 😄

Sadly, however, moral panics sell newspapers — or, in a rather ironic recent development, get people (presumably adults, ha ha) clicking and tapping on the sites, apps, and Facebook pages of media outlets.
Exactly this. New technology has always been "bad for us" in some way. I remember in an English lesson in about 1994, when I was in year 8 or 9, studying an article about how video games were "making children violent", with language such as "combat games are the big sellers, and young boys' favourites", and that "video games contain almost exclusively male images; males are the heroes, while females are pawns, rewards and accessories". (This was before Lara Croft came along, with her guns.) At the time, I remember thinking that it was ironic that we were reading about violent computer games at an age when we were still not supposed to be playing them; might the debate itself put ideas in our heads? I didn't come across Grand Theft Auto until I was over twenty, and I was quite shocked.

As for other "evils of technology" debates, does anyone remember how the year 2000 was going to begin with humanity being wiped out by its own technology, with the Millennium Bug (with some groups calling it a conspiracy of Satan, or a punishment from God)? And not long after that, we were all going to have our brains fried by using our own mobile phones, because of those evil phone masts and microwaves? Did this ever actually happen?

Let's remember also that television was given a bad press as a means of entertaining children ("it will give you square eyes!"); and then in 2020, the blond buffoon spoke to us out of our telescreens televisions, and told us to stay at home; and lots of people hung on his every word, and completely lapped up the fear and panic deliberately spread by his government; and dutifully stayed at home, destroyed their children's social lives, and made their eyes squarer than ever. I think if we're going to start moralising about children and smartphones, somebody needs to be grovelling pretty hard about subjecting children to months of the isolation and pure cruelty of lockdown, which accelerated dependency on smartphones among adults, never mind children. At one point, you were basically doomed to be a societal outcast if you couldn't show a clear vaxpass on your smartphone, and this was so ingrained in popular culture that Tesco made it part of their Christmas ad, with Santa showing such as pass; and wasn't there one "Santa tracking app" that showed Santa wearing a mask? (Covid lockdowns are another issue, I know - but it's one which I feel did much more damage than smartphones ever will; and it is notable that lockdown was only possible because of the extent of social media and internet use.)

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But all this technology still had some element of control. 9pm watershed for example, age ratings on video games. Plus you had to be in a certain place at a certain time to watch/engage with it.

The internet has no limits whatsoever. Children literally have access to the most vile, objectionable things you may ever imagine let alone physically be exposed to.

It’s really worrying that you think it’s just a few luddites getting their knickers in a twist about ‘new technology’. But, hey, you say to yourself whatever you need to say to make you feel better about it.

Bignanna · 20/12/2024 17:05

Deargodletitgo · 20/12/2024 09:32

My soon to be 11 year old will be walking to and from school next year and so I wish to track him via a phone and know he can contact me if needed, so sorry, he will be getting one.

It doesn’t have to be a smartphone for him to be able to contact you!

Lufannian · 20/12/2024 17:06

My eldest is 10. She won’t be getting a phone any time soon. Her group of friends don’t have phones though so I’m not under much pressure in that respect.

However there are many kids in her class who do have phones. Some of them have Facebook and instagram and crop up on my “people you may know” thing (not that I’d add them). There’s a lot of bullying and unkindness on the WhatsApp groups, apparently.

To be honest I hate to say it but here, it’s not the “nice” kids that have phones at 10. It’s the ones who are running around the town with no supervision like they are 14 and not 9/10.

WhiteLily1 · 20/12/2024 18:23

u3ername · 20/12/2024 12:13

'Simpler chatting to friends and socialising can hardly be compared to drugs.
Imagine every single friend you knew is socialising on an app that you can’t have. They don’t communicate via any other method. Literally just think of it now. Imagine for example you have no mobile. No telephone at all. Someone comes along and says ok, you have to communicate via postal mail only with all your friends and aquatiences. You would be cut off from everyone.
It’s pretty much that.' @WhiteLily1

How are these children your friends if you have no other way of communicating with them? How strong and important or two-sided are these friendships when the people are so young, immature, learning social communication (which is much more than text)?
The whole point is that children are not mature enough and need to learn what adults before them have learned before using smart phones - finding joy in things that don't give you instant satisfaction, failing and feeling disappointed at things you can't replay/ retype/ delete, learning patience and self control, learning social cues from real interactions.
It's not just SM, there's so much more, (and you can access porn with no SM.)
Your children are not going to use the phones for what they are meant to be used for I.e. information.

My point is that grown-ups need to be in charge with this one - much more involved and restrictive than they are at the moment.
Not giving in, because all their friends have one.

Firstly, please do tell me how you can access porn when you have no safari, no internet browser, no social media, no ability to access VPN, cannot add apps or change any setting at all on your phone without gaining permission and a parent entering a pass code. Please do tell.
Secondly, yes all you are saying is correct but we don’t live in a world before internet and smart phones (in some ways I wish we did- smart phones anyway!) but we don’t.
Children are friends because they meet them at school or clubs primarily.
But then find that they are locked out of literally every communication outside of school. We ain’t in Kansas any more Dorothy as they say. Secondary school communicate via what’s app and snap chat now. They don’t call. They don’t use normal text. For the most part if you don’t have one of these apps, you ain’t speaking to mates outside school, or arranging anything with them, or being part of a group. As sad as that is, that’s the reality for kids today.
You can go on about the good old days and what kids should do, but I am pointing out the reality - I have 3 teens, who have dozens and dozens of mates and aquatiences. Believe me, I know.

WhiteLily1 · 20/12/2024 18:28

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 16:55

And no one. But no one. Needs to be tracked.

No one actually need a phone at all/ not even you. But it’s nice to have no? Makes you feel safer and I’ll bet has helped you out of a tight spot when you for example forgot to turn the oven off or needed to tell someone you were running late and not to worry.
Its incredibly handy to see you child has boarded the bus / arrived at school and you can get on with your day.

LynetteScavo · 20/12/2024 18:34

If I knew then what I know now, there is no way I would have allowed my DD to have TikTok and Instagram SnapChat etc before she was 16. It's simply not possible to monitor every reel, post etc that the algorithms throw up. Giving a smartphone is not just about parenting/monitoring, teaching kids how to use the internet safely, taking it away at 9pm. It's about our DC being exposed to all sorts of things unexpectedly, and not necessarily having the maturity to deal with it.

I am so glad my eldest only accessed the internet via search engines and not apps when he was a tween. I bloody love the internet, the ability to track our close family and text rather than phone, but letting kids have full access to whatever they fancy won't end well. Put your fingers in your ears and hum if you like. There was a time when smoking around DC and not using car seats was a thing. Times change, and I think adults in future will look back and chuckle that parents allowed them to look at all sorts of inappropriate nonsense on their smartphone.

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 18:49

WhiteLily1 · 20/12/2024 18:28

No one actually need a phone at all/ not even you. But it’s nice to have no? Makes you feel safer and I’ll bet has helped you out of a tight spot when you for example forgot to turn the oven off or needed to tell someone you were running late and not to worry.
Its incredibly handy to see you child has boarded the bus / arrived at school and you can get on with your day.

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I said no one needs to be tracked. Not no one needs a phone

Original poster

Firey40 · 20/12/2024 18:53

LynetteScavo · 20/12/2024 18:34

If I knew then what I know now, there is no way I would have allowed my DD to have TikTok and Instagram SnapChat etc before she was 16. It's simply not possible to monitor every reel, post etc that the algorithms throw up. Giving a smartphone is not just about parenting/monitoring, teaching kids how to use the internet safely, taking it away at 9pm. It's about our DC being exposed to all sorts of things unexpectedly, and not necessarily having the maturity to deal with it.

I am so glad my eldest only accessed the internet via search engines and not apps when he was a tween. I bloody love the internet, the ability to track our close family and text rather than phone, but letting kids have full access to whatever they fancy won't end well. Put your fingers in your ears and hum if you like. There was a time when smoking around DC and not using car seats was a thing. Times change, and I think adults in future will look back and chuckle that parents allowed them to look at all sorts of inappropriate nonsense on their smartphone.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I feel so sad for the generation of kids who were effectively guinea pigs for the effects of smartphones.

I hope that this thread gives more parents the confidence to NOT give their kid a smartphone, for as long as they possibly can.

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Dinnerplease · 20/12/2024 18:56

No one's saying they can never have them- just that 16+ is a much more sensible age to make good choices, understand risk etc.
And of course internet use on a family laptop for schoolwork or other personal interests will happen too. No one is suggesting they live in a cave.

I'm told by a 12yo relative that there's a rich seam of 'how to get round your smartphone controls without your parents knowing' videos online and anyone who thinks their kid won't try that is either deluded or has a very unusual child.

I would have been trying to get around it, 100%

It's also what they're not doing when they're on them- some of those kids on the swiped documentary were doing 10 hours a day. No reading, no drawing, no running around, not even regular TV with a proper narrative. I found it really sad they had no idea what to do with themselves.

DragonFly98 · 20/12/2024 18:57

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 18:49

I said no one needs to be tracked. Not no one needs a phone

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Not a parent of a vulnerable autistic pre teen, whose only means of school transport available to them is two public buses then.

Original poster

Firey40 · 20/12/2024 19:01

Bontonbonbon · 20/12/2024 14:46

@scalt

This is entirely different. The scale of grooming, sexually explicit material, bullying, doxxxing and harassment via smart phone is unbelievable. I work in a school and it is almost all we deal with- kids who access the dark web and send videos to other kids. Kids who sell pictures of themselves online. Kids who have watched so much violent porn by the age of 14 that they have no concept of healthy sex lives. It is unstoppable once they have access.

This isn’t like the panic about video games. It’s about kids as young as 8 ending up in situations where they are viewing adult material because of unrestricted smart phone use. Kids with deeply
messed up world views because of things they have accessed on social media platforms.

It takes so much school time, police time, social services time, justice system time just so parents can have their own time to stare into their own social media feeds. It’s fucked up.

This. A million times this.

Schools can’t possibly ever have the resources to deal with the complexities smartphones bring.

The kids must not be given the smartphone to start with; and that decision has to come from brave, informed parenting.

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sparkleandshine7 · 20/12/2024 19:08

Deargodletitgo · 20/12/2024 09:32

My soon to be 11 year old will be walking to and from school next year and so I wish to track him via a phone and know he can contact me if needed, so sorry, he will be getting one.

Walking to school as an 11 year old is far less trepidatious than letting them loose on the delights of the internet tho

cottoncandy260 · 20/12/2024 19:13

Firey40 · 20/12/2024 19:01

This. A million times this.

Schools can’t possibly ever have the resources to deal with the complexities smartphones bring.

The kids must not be given the smartphone to start with; and that decision has to come from brave, informed parenting.

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Absolutely this.

I also work in a school and deal with the effects of smartphones day in, day out. Parents who think their children aren’t affected by it all are completely delusional. Cognitive dissonance at its most extreme.

Oreyt · 20/12/2024 19:13

Bluemonkey2029 · 20/12/2024 11:39

People track their kids?

So if they want to go somewhere they know they aren't allowed to go, they leave their phone at a friend's house, therefore meaning they are unable to call anyone for help if needed? That seems really counterintuitive.

Unless your kids don't know you are tracking them. Which somehow seems worse...

I always know where my kids are. They tell me stuff that I don't even want to know. So I'm 100% confident. When I first put it on dd sometimes turned her tracking off but still had her phone on her.

Oreyt · 20/12/2024 19:14

@Kibble29
Exactly. It's all about fitting in.