Ageism,ignorance, intolerance. class bias on mumsnet re Waspi women

[CAJIE]

I did not honestly expect any compensation though I might have hoped. Iwas aware of this change but did not have the chance to make extra provision for it.I do have a professional pension but will have to wait a while longer for the state pension which is extremely challenging.My plans were changed by covid and I doubt I will be employed again except possibly on poor and temporary contracts or gig economy.Secondary school supply on a daily basis has more or less gone.
However what appals me is the attitudes of many mumsnetters who assume that everyone has the abiity to understand pensions and that the Waspi women should have taken so called control of their situation.Maybe some could but there is a hell of a lot of class bias towards the women in lower paid jobs who perhaps were overwhelmed by struggling to survive and did not understand or read the news or the pension changes were not clearly explained to them.Pensions can be hard to understand and provoke anxiety.This appalling prejudice that all older people are rolling in it and this nice habit of some younger women to be sadly quite misogynistic and ageist towards women who are in poverty is very concerning.All sections of society should thrive even in older age and perhaps you younger women should be challenging society, housing costs, the whole ideology of owning a house and actually trying to build something new rather than bitching about what boomers have and their endless cruises etc.
.You are turning against your sex and the comments are cruel and harsh.You know nothing about these womens lives.
Starmer wants to punish older people and older women are always a good target.Your spite about all the things that boomers are supposed to have and you apparently dont is unpleasant.Women beware women.Very sad and against justice.

This still happens but they don’t say it out loud. By BIL (not in the same work place) said he prefers hiring men for this reason. He was currently hiring and went for the man over a woman and this was his only reason why.

It is wrong that the WASPI women were offered something, based I believe on a legal judgement, and it has now been taken away.

However, I am 64 and knew about the pension changes in the early to mid 90s when I was in my 30s. It was all over the press.

I am still working full-time. I love work and having had 8 years off when my DC were small, the increase in pension age for women gave me a cracking shot at taking professional qualifications and a second career in my mid 40s. I think it's great.

I have a huge amount of empathy for those women and everything they went through, but the fact of them being asked to work until 65 is not one of the things that I would regard as a particular hardship. They were the generation that campaigned for equality after all. And given that I'm going to have to work until 67 or later, I don't really see the problem.

The ones that seem to be most aggrieved are those who might have been able to make alternative arrangements if they had known earlier. In other words, women in relatively privileged positions who would have had money to spare if they had been able to plan further ahead. But even then, they had decades to prepare.

Given the pressure on public finances, I don't think compensation for these women is a priority. I would, however, be more than happy for my taxes to be increased in order to help older people who are genuinely in need.

I'm 66, knew about the changes and did not need compensating. I agree that a blanket payment to all WASPI women would be unreasonable, but surely the government could have come up with something more nuanced and targetted at those most affected. Isn't finding solutions like that something the civil service is supposed to do? It's like the winter fuel allowance - prudent economics, bad politics.
PS I voted remain, since this issue seems to have hi-jacked the discussion

Yes, I would support something more nuanced to support those who really need it.

If we let this go because "there's not enough money" this will be used again and again to justify impoverishing vulnerable people and sending a clear message that rich powerful groups or governments can do what they like.

Yes we wouldn't want governments to think they can impoverish vulnerable people and get away with it. Wherever would that lead.

You can't think that letting this go would be what opens the flood gates to governments thinking they can do what they like, rather than, I don't know, the last 14 years. Obviously that's not a reason not to push back, but you seem to be implying that letting this go would be somehow different to all the other things and would send a clear message to government that they haven't already received.

There are arguments to pay the compensation, but "we don't want governments to start not looking after people" isn't one of them.

I’m in my mid 30s. By 60 I’ll probably still be paying off my student loan, still be paying off my mortgage and still have many years of working ahead of me!

I Love WASPI women - don’t care about their politics or how they voted for Brexit, this is why:
My mother was one, that whole generation born late forties early fifties, were born into a totally different world. They were expected to marry and have children, they were shamed for being single mothers and even if they had a ‘good’ reason (widow for example) still given basically nothing. They couldn’t open bank accounts till they were twenty and couldn’t get credit or mortgages.
Their pay was so poor it’s still unequal after decades of campaigning, they had to give up NI (stamp) contributions and workplace pensions (if they let a woman have one)as people wouldn’t let women with young children really work much, or for about 50p an hour.
Those that don’t have kids and worked faced shocking sexism, fought tooth and nail to get us the rights and respect we have in the workplace now but never had it for themselves, sexual harassment wasn’t accepted so much expected.
Through all this they were the backbones of most family’s, girls brigade, girls guides, brownies, jumble sales, school fetes and all those other small touches that make a community.
People NOW will opt out of pensions or forego life insurance in favour of eating and heating today - that’s life. They never had a chance to make up the difference.
They are one of our most trailblazing and crucial female generations - they trod this path for us first and suffered for it.
I love them.

I wish that every poster who justifies the denial of WASPI compensation "because we can't afford it" would give their head a wobble.

The ombudsman recommends that they get compensation because the civil service literally made a mistake.

If we accept this, any government can use " no money " over and over again for whatever unfair treatment they want.

There is money. The "public finances" is a made up story. The government and the Bank of England can raise money through bonds, borrowing, any number of ways. The pound is a fiat currency.
Labour have wedded themselves to outdoing even the OBR in an attempt to score points over Liz Truss. Unfortunately they've sent the economy into recession through their unimaginative punishment policies which are destroying confidence. Not to mention their support for Brexit.

At the moment it looks like they're handing the country to Reform or a coalition at the next election. This is bad. Don't hand them any precedent to ignore the rule of law or government.

How would not increasing the pension age have precluded you from those actions?

Had this discussion on a different post, some idiots out there that don't realise Waspi women are also fighting for them!

@DarkAndTwisties

There are arguments to pay the compensation, but "we don't want governments to start not looking after people" isn't one of them

Apparently Labour government is supposed to be a "change "?

How would not increasing the pension age have precluded you from those actions? How did raising the pension age give you a 'cracking shot...'?

@losingweightandgainingconfidence

You seem to be casting this in the light of a generational issue.

Let me set out my position. I am not a WASPI I am mid-50s. My retirement age was 60 when I started work and it is now 67. I am fine with that because the changes happened early enough in my career that I could plan for them. Additionally, I am comfortably off and have been fortunate enough to have the ability to save. In fact I have been a net contributor for many years.

So why do I care about this? I care because it is a symptom of the systemic undervaluing of women and their contribution to society. If women like me, who have the means, time and education don’t stand up and say something about ignoring the ombudsman, about discriminatory pay practices, poor maternity practices etc etc then the younger generation of women will end up having to re fight battles we all thought were won.

This case is another example where women are expected to tolerate being let down by the state for the “good of society”. Why? Why are women expected to tolerate maladministration that caused them loss?

It feels too often to me that women are left fighting between themselves for the scraps.

(p.s. I voted remain!)

Well said !!

Education and national identity also played a huge part in Brexit.
Of the 30 areas most identifying as English all 30 voted leave.
Of the 30 areas with the oldest population 27 voted leave.
The gap between age 45 and age 65 voting leave is only 6%.

It's quite obvious @CAJIE from reading a lot of posts on MN the younger generation generally have no idea just how times have changed they see the lives the WASPI women were living comparable to today.

For instance how many understand a time when there were only 3 channels on the TV and turned off at 12pm. All the news was pretty much in the newspapers only, if you bought and read them.

There was no internet or social media or forums like MN. The internet only became mainstream around 1999/2000.

They casually blame women for not following what was going on. Getting information was incredibly hard compared to now days where you can pull out your phone and it's at your fingertips.

Women bringing up kids at home dids not have the luxury of sitting watching 1 channel or reading the news paper if they did not receive or get a single letter.

The blinkers on modern society is what is the Issue and ignorance of the lives of the older generation.

I'd like to say that I absolutely agree with this. Thank you. Your experience sounds very similar to my own. I have some missing NI years because I had to retire at 60 as mentally and physically exhausted. Thought my pension was entirely paid up. Turned out it wasn't as I should have paid in the last 6 years too.
Perhaps I was stupid but I asked a number of my exact contemporaries and they didn't know either. All professional women in a variety of fields.
I can only say the I wish letters had arrived to explain this. I have no recollection of them arriving at all. I did know about the pension age, but not about NI. I did work a bit after retirement but then Covid and then ill.

I do hope that you, my dear, are making provisions for your (if you live) old age, otherwise you will be WFH from your bed at 99 years old !!

@losingweightandgainingconfidence

Do you realise that it doesn't matter what people did, or you think they voted for, or what they look like, or who they love, or where they live?

Taking that kind of view frightens me. What's the next step? Society shouldn't be about scoring points against some perceived enemy. Who knows- might be you next!

WASPI women aren't even one defined generation. And the majority of them are not wealthy. The ones in Scotland overwhelmingly voted against Brexit. Are they ok? Are the ones who voted Labour acceptable?

There was maladministration and compensation should be awarded.
Why do we have an ombudsman if the recommendations are toothless.

I guess this poster means it gave more time to do both- raise children and get ahead with your career. Retirement at 60 wasn't optional in a lot of companies, it was enforced.