To think children are being excluded from school too easily?

[RibbyJumper]

Children and their welfare come first in any school - surely?

My DC had an EHCP before DC started reception. The school wanted to refuse DC’s placement. After a fight DC is in the mainstream school with extra funding (9 til 3 daily). DC can do Maths/Reading/Writing, has friends and is no behaviour problem. DC is very quiet and easily overlooked.

I’m so cross that they ever tried to exclude DC before DC had even started school.

DC is now in year 1 and there is no way DC gets his allocated provision. They’ve used it to fund other things.

However I now hear that the school have essentially excluded two other children in Year 1 in the afternoons. They stay for the morning and go home at lunchtime.

This is wrong isn’t it? What the hell is happening in our schools??

I assume this wasn’t recently because no way would £14k pay for a 1:1 working 32.5 hours a week, even at minimum wage.

I own a nursery and EHCP funding does not cover the cost of employing a 1:1. Nowhere near in fact, so it’s simply not possible.

This. I think we need more specialist provision as we have a few children in my child’s school who really cannot cope- some non verbal, one who hits other children constantly. The parents are furious with the school for lack of ‘support’ but 10 years ago without doubt these children would be in specialist provision.

It is scandal that any child is being deprived of an education. We need a massive increase in specialist provision so that children can have an education in a setting which meets their needs, rather than trying to shield horn them into an environment that lets them down.

All children in mainstream schooling must have their need to have a peaceful and safe learning environment met.

School is currently far too stressful for too many children.

I think we need to change the way we deliver education as a whole. School is very difficult for many children with and without SEN, so something isn’t working across the board.

Secondary school with different classes every 45-60 minutes, with a multitude of different teachers all with their own teaching style is brutal for kids. I don’t know how to do it but there has to be a better way.

This doesn’t make sense. The current way of mixing SEN with non-sen doesn’t make sense. It’s simply inefficient. Have all of the non-sen kids in one school and you’ll have 60% of the kids educated to a high standard in an efficient manner, and plough the rest of the money into Sen schools.

why do you equate educating a class on non sen kids with educating them to a high standard? I know many DC with SEN have learning difficulties but many children with Sen are the brightest in school (I have one of those). Why should only 60 per cent receive an education to a high standard (whatever that means). Every child should be educated to a high standard. what a lot of bollocks. and you realise that SN encompasses a. dry large heterogeneous cohort. Its not the homogeneous lump you make them out to be.

I agree my oldest has always found school difficult ,he's at college now GCSE,s for everyone us a very blunt instrument and just doesn't work for all kids
My youngest is severely disabled and has always been in a special school and I'm happy with his provision but we'll aware that many kids whose are less severe are failed by the system.

I think I’m just going to hit my head against a wall after that gorgeous ‘us and them’ comment. Give me strength.

That is shocking! Surely there’s some type of recourse in that situation if you can prove they are not following the approved plan that was put in place.

How are people proposing paying for all these lovely ideas? More tax?

@babyproblems
@HollopingHooligans

I’ve also heard of schools not even having the child on site, failing to inform the LA - but still taking the funding.

Yes

Ok @Snugglemonkey , that's great. How much more tax can you pay? I know many families are struggling as it is.

TBH, I’m not sure it’s the funding.
It’s about correct allocation of the funding. How the hell is DC’s school affording a brand new event space in the car park??
I had far less funding 30 years ago, no computers, no TA etc, but would I DID have was a very hands-on headteacher who made sure expectations were high and had clear behavioural expectations.
There was no non-teaching SENCO on a very high wage either.

The EHCP was first issued in 2018, and the £14k was additional funding on top of the notional £6k that schools are meant to spend.

He is now at an independent specialist school (and transported by taxi) which costs considerably more than it would have done to just provide the support he needed in mainstream! Unfortunately the trauma caused by lack of support was such that it wasn't possible to reintegrate him to a mainstream setting.

Not really. Nobody gives a fuck.

If provision detailed, specified and quantified in F isn’t being provided, parents can enforce the provision, via judicial review if necessary. Under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014, the ultimate duty to ensure provision is provided lies with the LA. Although under section 66 of the Children and Families Act 2014 most types of schools (including state mainstream schools) must make their best endeavours to meet a pupil’s SEN, that includes making their best endeavours to provide the provision in F, so not providing it also potentially leaves the school open to legal challenge or a disability discrimination claim.

If a child is being unlawfully informally excluded, that can also be challenged via JR if necessary. Or some parents may go down the disability discrimination route.

If a compulsory school-aged child is unable to attend school full time, under section 19 of the Education Act 1996, the LA has a duty to ensure they still receive a suitable full-time education. Again, where necessary, this can be enforced via JR.

This is your correct reply in a nutshell. And this is why people home school now in the droves, despite what intentions are assigned to them, they don't have another choice.

Praying the ones who need protection will be protected.

what do you suggest???

You are of course correct.

But it all takes time and energy, which are both in short supply for parents of disabled children being unlawfully excluded from school!

When I say "nobody gives a fuck" - that is pretty much how it plays out until you start with actual legal action. The school and the LA will literally just be like yeah wevs, why don't you give up work and claim carers allowance if you're going to lose your job anyway (actually what was suggested to me by an SEN caseworker when my child wasn't in school).

What about the parents with SEN themselves that means they can't become a legal expert overnight to fight their child's corner? Parents shouldn't have to take legal action to get their children an education! It's a disgrace.

You are right, parents shouldn’t have to. Nowhere did I say otherwise! Unfortunately, DC whose parents can advocate for their DC get better support. It fails the most vulnerable. Sadly, it isn’t going to change in the foreseeable future.

I didn’t comment on that in my post because the poster asked about what recourse parents had in such situations so I was commenting on how parents can enforce their DC’s rights. For a multitude of reasons, not all parents go down those routes, but that wasn’t what the pp asked.

That's all spot on IMO; inclusion is the cheap option, alternative provision with a higher staffing ratio is more expensive, so the government naturally prefer inclusion which then gets justified by a cohort of useful idiots as being the superior option. The idea that it's a good thing for children with significant additional needs to be accommodated in a standard classroom is actually laughable when you see it in practice.

Sorry but there are 1000s of children in England who are not education because of various types of needs because their LA cannot provide a suitable education.

This is what happens when the school system and medical system (mental and physical) have been driven to breaking point by previous government lack of funding and interest!

I know, sorry, it just enrages me that the answer to this problem is "take legal action" because it's so fucking unfair. You do always give great advice

It is infuriating, isn’t it? Can you imagine the uproar if it was other groups of DC rather than DC with SEN? It is a sign of the views society as a whole holds about disabled people in general. It is also a sign of a lack of knowledge and understanding - e.g. the general public would be aghast if they knew the vast sums of money LAs waste of defending indefensible cases.