Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised this potential miscarriage of justice isn’t given more prominence

139 replies

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 09:48

Expert 'changed mind' over deaths, say Letby lawyers https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv3jlzme90o

If it is the case that she could be innocent it doesn’t really bear thinking about.

Lucy Letby mugshot in red hoody - medium length brown hair and blue eyes with thin eyebrows

Expert witness 'changed mind' over deaths, say Lucy Letby lawyers

The nurse was convicted of the murders of seven babies and the attempted murder of seven more.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv3jlzme90o

OP posts:
Manara · 17/12/2024 09:49

The expert hasn’t spoken out yet, has he?

Sounds like machinations by the lawyer.

She is guilty.

anniegun · 17/12/2024 09:49

Its almost constantly in the news - you must be blind if you missed it

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 09:53

anniegun · 17/12/2024 09:49

Its almost constantly in the news - you must be blind if you missed it

Quite a way down though. I suppose I’d have expected it to be right at the top. I think it’s only on my BBC homepage as I’m not far from Chester. I could be wrong of course (it has been known 😅)

OP posts:
Cattenberg · 17/12/2024 09:58

How much more coverage do you need? A few weeks ago, my DD (6) asked, “why is Lucy Letby so popular?”

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 10:01

Cattenberg · 17/12/2024 09:58

How much more coverage do you need? A few weeks ago, my DD (6) asked, “why is Lucy Letby so popular?”

Edited

Did she aye

OP posts:
OverdueForAnEyeTest · 17/12/2024 10:01

I’m not near Chester and it was on the BBC Homepage yesterday for me. It appeared as breaking news then it was on the Homepage.

Samcro · 17/12/2024 10:03

the poor families of those babies.

ExpressCheckout · 17/12/2024 10:07

I have no idea whether Letby is guilty or innocent.

But the inquiry is shining a light on the awful leadership culture of the NHS, for instance, managers spending their careers rotating around senior posts throughout the UK, acting beyond their knowledge or competence and (as has been alleged or implied) bullying and threatening healthcare professionals. Awful people.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 17/12/2024 10:09

Samcro · 17/12/2024 10:03

the poor families of those babies.

It must be so traumatising to them to constantly see this.

I'd think if the expert witness had really rethought any of the deaths in a substantive way that he would have spoken to the defence lawyer about it. It seems more to be a point of procedure then anything that is significant and could change the outcome. More someone getting off on a technicality territory than real miscarriage of justice.

Grahamhousehushand · 17/12/2024 10:12

It has been pretty much continuously in the news for years now. There is an ongoing public inquiry which only stopped hearing oral evidence over the Christmas period last week - I saw headlines at least weekly about that. The timing of this stunt by her lawyer after that is presumably to keep her in the headlines.

There is no new evidence. The 'experts' are claiming that evidence should have been adduced at trial which was adduced at trial re postmortem injuries to one babies liver or whether AE arose through air introduced through the NG tube into the stomach or the nose. The evidence of injury to child O's liver was discussed by the pathologist on the stand and not queried by the defence on cross, and the fact Evans report AE to baby C CD have occurred by one of two mechanisms, at trial he thought it was more likely to be via the stomach and he has later said he is less sure of that is irrelevant. The prosecution did not have to prove cause of death, only that death was unnatural and five medical witnesses agreed Baby C did not die of natural caused. The defence did not produce any witnesses disputing that. Indeed their own expert witness, who they did not call, said he found Baby C's death hard to explain.

Which leaves you with a sum total of zilch. A barrister with a long history of seeking attention for representing the guilty (Ben Geen anyone?). A handful of doctors who cannot have seen the children's medical records only the evidence adduced at trial.

And bereaved families, families caring for seriously disabled children and the survivors themselves. If we wanted to care about anything here perhaps we could give them some thought.

NotOneOfTheInCrowd · 17/12/2024 10:12

Am sick of hearing about the woman. And frankly I’m appalled by the lack of empathy and compassion that posters here are demonstrating towards bereaved parents by constantly harping on about her as if she’s some kind of victim.

Give it a bloody rest.

If you want to appeal for her release go and do it on one of the other conspiracy theory sites out there. A parenting site where bereaved parents should feel they can come for support isn’t the place.

CasuirDubh · 17/12/2024 10:18

The expert is still saying someone inflicted the injury but he's saying the injury may have been different to what he thought previously. Killing babies using air is hard to prove/investigate because it's not something you can test for and thankfully it almost never happens.

If there is an issue with the evidence it should absolutely be reviewed but I think she did it. There's plenty of evidence supporting her conviction.

MikeRafone · 17/12/2024 10:27

Manara · 17/12/2024 09:49

The expert hasn’t spoken out yet, has he?

Sounds like machinations by the lawyer.

She is guilty.

Yes, at her trial 🫤

Cattenberg · 17/12/2024 10:29

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 10:01

Did she aye

I promise you, she did! I wish my parents didn’t watch the news while DD is at their house for tea, as she had nightmares about a certain case in which a child was shot.

Luminousalumnus · 17/12/2024 10:33

If this expert is now saying anything close to what we are reading, it is HUGE. There will have to be a retrial if that is even possible as there is so much prejudice now. He was absolutely crucial to the original conviction.

HornyHornersPinger · 17/12/2024 10:46

NotOneOfTheInCrowd · 17/12/2024 10:12

Am sick of hearing about the woman. And frankly I’m appalled by the lack of empathy and compassion that posters here are demonstrating towards bereaved parents by constantly harping on about her as if she’s some kind of victim.

Give it a bloody rest.

If you want to appeal for her release go and do it on one of the other conspiracy theory sites out there. A parenting site where bereaved parents should feel they can come for support isn’t the place.

I wholeheartedly agree with every word 👏🏼

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 10:55

If it’s a miscarriage of justice she is a victim of unimaginable trauma. I can’t think of much worse.

OP posts:
Grahamhousehushand · 17/12/2024 11:07

@Snowintheforest If is doing a lot of work there isn't it? Theoretically that is true for everyone in the criminal justice system including those who have made confessions like the Guildford Four. But realistically she had a nine month trial, a KC representing her, she chose not to call any medical experts to challenge the prosecution witnesses, she then had a second trial re Baby K, and has had appeal applications heard from a full panel re both trials.

It's a high publicity trial because (we hope) it is very unusual for healthcare professionals to kill patients. But she has enjoyed exactly the same if not more procedural protection as anyone else in the English legal system so either you call into question all convictions OR you have to start asking what is it about white, young, female Lucy Letby that gets her so much attention from people questioning if she could kill people. After all someone killed patients on that ward. She admitted that on the stand at her trial.

user243245346 · 17/12/2024 11:09

I agree. I really don't think there was sufficient evidence that she murdered anyone and if she is actually innocent then it's appalling how she has been demonized. I don't believe her conviction is safe in any event.

I also don't believe there is any issue with mums debating this on AIBU. Fair enough if this was the bereaved parents board but it isn't. If she was wrongfully convicted then it's in everyone's interests that she be released

ThatsNotMyTeen · 17/12/2024 11:11

anniegun · 17/12/2024 09:49

Its almost constantly in the news - you must be blind if you missed it

This

the news has been full of armchair experts thinking they know better than the jury for months

DuckBee · 17/12/2024 11:12

The parents of these children deserve to have well investigated evidence of how their children died. Whether that includes Lucy or not. It looks like a half arsed job which has enabled the parents to be re-traumatised over and over again and they deserve more.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 17/12/2024 11:12

Snowintheforest · 17/12/2024 10:55

If it’s a miscarriage of justice she is a victim of unimaginable trauma. I can’t think of much worse.

🎻

PenguinIce · 17/12/2024 11:12

BBC now reporting that the expert is saying Letby’s lawyer is wrong. Why was this in the news before they checked with the expert. Awful for the families involved.

user243245346 · 17/12/2024 11:14

Grahamhousehushand · 17/12/2024 11:07

@Snowintheforest If is doing a lot of work there isn't it? Theoretically that is true for everyone in the criminal justice system including those who have made confessions like the Guildford Four. But realistically she had a nine month trial, a KC representing her, she chose not to call any medical experts to challenge the prosecution witnesses, she then had a second trial re Baby K, and has had appeal applications heard from a full panel re both trials.

It's a high publicity trial because (we hope) it is very unusual for healthcare professionals to kill patients. But she has enjoyed exactly the same if not more procedural protection as anyone else in the English legal system so either you call into question all convictions OR you have to start asking what is it about white, young, female Lucy Letby that gets her so much attention from people questioning if she could kill people. After all someone killed patients on that ward. She admitted that on the stand at her trial.

She may have given an opinion that someone killed babies but she did not claim to have any actual knowledge of this. It is possible that the babies died of natural causes- this was initially given as the cause of death for many of them.

Given previous cases with statistical evidence and alleged best medical evidence which have been overturned (eg Sally Clark) imo her conviction isn't safe.

ExhaustedGoose · 17/12/2024 11:18

I had a baby in a NICU at the time Letby was 'active' and have followed this closely all the way through. You cannot fathom the depths of the trauma of those families, firstly for having a child in the unit, and then losing them in such circumstances.
IMHO Letby is an evil psychopath who deserves to be tortured until she explains why she did these things. Guantanamo would be too good for her.