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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Our cousins took our inheritance and gave it to their mother, I feel I can't carry on acting as if nothing has happened

438 replies

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 11:17

My deceased mother had brothers and a sister. One deceased brother and the surviving sister (i.e. our aunt) had kids. We used to go on shared holidays twice a year with our aunt's kids, we've always got on well.

Our bachelor uncle died 2 years ago, with no will. When we were chatting a few months later, my aunt's eldest told me that they were going to try to "so what my uncle would have wanted". I assumed my cousin would contact me and my sister in the future to discuss this, since they would need us to sign off anything that would change the legally defined distribution (which is 1/6 each to me and my sister), since it would be a criminal offence to do otherwise, which my cousin must know, since their spouse is a director of a legal company.

A few months after my uncle died, my sister was diagnosed with incurable cancer, with months, possibly a year or two to live. She had to go on sick leave for the chemo and radiation treatment, etc. After 6 months, her sick pay dropped to 50%, and after a year was due to end. She asked me what was happening with our uncle's estate, this being around 18 months after he died, with the house sold 6 months previously. I had received no updates, so she sent a facebook message to our cousin who was dealing with the estate, asking for an update and she described her health/finance situation. To our surprise, our cousin told us that they had given all the money to my aunt, rather than the 1/3 share the law defined.

I was baffled why they'd do this without getting legal documents with our consent first. Before I had a chance to form any further opinion, my cousins blocked my sister on messenger and unfriended her on Facebook. I assume that they think that she has done something so awful that she should be shunned and disowned.

Since then, my sister has had no birthday cards from them or my aunt, and no Christmas cards so far, whereas they've carried on liking my family updates on facebook, and have sent me cheery Christmas cards which arrived a couple of days ago. My sister is dwelling on the idea that they've lied on the probate forms, pretending that our mother never existed.

I just feel queasy and sick about it, how can I carry on as normal with them, or visit them at Christmas, even though my sister has told me she doesn't want this to oblige me to distance myself.
I want to explain to them how upsetting this has been, I've lost lots of sleep over this over the past few months, but now Christmas is coming, I feel I should say something, surely if I don't it will look like tacit agreement that I agree with their actions.

I was thinking of writing to my cousin, telling them how unhappy and sad this makes me feel. I feel that they have been so unfair in acting as if my sister has done something wrong, whereas they did not tell us what they planned (hence us having to ask for an update), whereas they have in fact committed a criminal offence (which I might not highlight). I had been wishfully imagining that my aunt might be unaware of all this, but then when I woke up too early again today fretting about this, I realised that if she hasn't sent my sister a Christmas card, then she must know all about it.

Initially I had been thinking for months to send a letter explaining how I feel to my cousin. Then after realising that my aunt must know about this, I've been trying to write a letter to send to my aunt this morning, to send with a Christmas card, since she asked how we are in the card she sent to me.
Surely that's the best option. Then I felt ill writing it, then decided to ask for advice here.

I definitely can't just carry on as normal, and I don't think I can say nothing.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Oncewornballgown · 16/12/2024 15:30

Unfortunately your cousins and aunt believe that keeping you sweet will permit them to get away with fraud. Their appalling behaviour towards your sister has shown what happens when they are questioned. They applied to administer the estate and then have not complied with the law. They have full awareness of their actions and are basically a bunch of crooks. I’m not sure how you could even consider sending a Christmas card!
You are within your rights to write to them and ask formally for the details of the distribution given the length of time that has passed. If you are lucky they may well capitulate when they realise that everything could get complicated for them. You can’t trust a word these people say so definitely get their response in writing and don’t accept less than this. They can’t now say that there wasn’t any money left as they have admitted giving it to their mother.
I too am wondering what has happened regarding the cousins from your other deceased uncle. Even if you decide not to pursue a legal case they deserve to be confronted with their actions and their fraud/theft brought into the light.

Ohnonotmeagain · 16/12/2024 15:33

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 15:18

It’s generally a civil matter.

The only time I’ve heard of an executor or administrator being convicted criminally was for contempt of court (after ignoring the court order to sort out the estate)

there’s a difference between simply failing to act as executor, which in itself isn’t criminal as so goes to civil court.

stealing the money, not keeping to the terms of the will/intestacy, or appropriating it for your own use, is criminal.

however you may need civil court for an order to recover the money if a criminal court determines theft/fraud.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:35

SunnyLurker · 16/12/2024 13:56

You mention in your OP, your mum had 2 brothers, what does the other brother/ his descents think of this?

I haven't asked them, I rarely see them although I get on well with them, I live quite a long distance from the village where they all live

OP posts:
twilightermummy · 16/12/2024 15:41

Maurepas · 16/12/2024 11:55

I voted YABU because you have NOT dealt with this matter at all in timely manner by taking legal action on behalf of sister. Outrageous.

I wanted to vote YABU for this reason but I didn't want to confuse and delay the op any further!

It beggars belief how passive you've been. I really feel sorry for your sister here. If my extended family treated my sister like that they'd have a problem with me, regardless of her health.

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 15:41

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:35

I haven't asked them, I rarely see them although I get on well with them, I live quite a long distance from the village where they all live

So was the Uncle that died in England? And I'm assuming that the cousins who handled the estate were the inheriting Aunties kids and not those you refer to above?

If that is the case then I think you do need to ask them if they have received their inheritance or been updated on what was happening? They maybe able to tell you something that settles the way forward for you?

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:43

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 14:26

If I am understanding correctly, you and your sister are entitled to 25% each and not 1/6.

Three siblings One Uncle and two Aunts.
Uncle Dies with no children
Your Mum died leaving you two.
Your Aunt has three kids from the sound of it.

I'm assuming you have decided you are entitled to a 6th by counting your Aunt, her kids and yourselves? I don't believe that is correct.

I believe that had your Mum still been alive the monies would have gone 50/50 to your Mum and Aunt. None of the nieces or nephews would have got anything. However as your Mum died, you and your sister inherit your mums share. So Aunty gets 50% and you and your sister share your Mums share. If you chose to waive your right in favour of your sister that would be fine. It is not the administrators place to decide this.

there were 3 siblings who had kids + the other uncle with no kids whose estate we are discussing, therefore estate split 3 ways , then 1/3 split with my sister = 1/6

OP posts:
TheOnlyAletheia · 16/12/2024 15:43

Just one point OP - you said that your cousin’s spouse ran a law firm and he was one of the administrators? If the firm is SRA regulated then the SRA would take an extremely dim view of it.

TonTonMacoute · 16/12/2024 15:44

Definitely sue them, once they know you are in earnest it may not even get to court.

As PPs have said, your relationship with them is now over, and that's not down to you. Think of it as acting for your sister if you feel bad about it.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:45

femfemlicious · 16/12/2024 14:31

Did you try application for inventory and account at probate registry?

is that possible? or do you mean the original probate "letters of administration" certificate?

OP posts:
NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:46

PearPartridge · 16/12/2024 14:38

What happens if someone spends all the money and then it's found some should have gone to other people?

I was told that the executor has to pay it from their own funds

OP posts:
NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:47

FancyFran · 16/12/2024 14:36

Inheritance and taxation in Australian law is different. Don't go there.

Previous posters are correct if the aunt expects her children to inherit they don't. Only a deceased sibling's children inherit.
I did suggest up thread the op checks her home insurance for cover.

If any of these siblings are half siblings it can complicate things. Please don't take the advice of armchair Rumpoles. You'll lose out.

there are no half-siblings, and I do have legal cover on my home insurance

OP posts:
NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:49

Negroany · 16/12/2024 14:39

What is the view of the other deceased brother's surviving kids? I assume there are three of them who also didn't get their 1/6th? Can you rally them into action with you?

I haven't asked, I've only seen them at funerals really for a long time, and we send Christmas cards

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 16/12/2024 15:49

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 11:39

no, and it's fair enough to assume that, but the guidance on the forms explains it all, and the cousin's spouse runs a legal firm, so I doubt they are unaware

If the cousin's spouse runs a legal firm, they absolutely know what they did was wrong but you only get recompense if you take legal action, which you are well within your rights to do. They are banking on you being too nice to do that.

Yet as soon as your poor sister asked them a question, your cousin said the money has gone to the aunt and blocked her. You have no idea if that is true.
But the action shows that the cousin doesn't care what you think and hopes you will think that taking legal action is too much trouble/too disruptive.

They have already disrupted your life, to their own advantage. If they are offended by you taking it further and asking questions and cut you off - havent they already offended your sister and tried to cut you both off?

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:55

Oncewornballgown · 16/12/2024 15:30

Unfortunately your cousins and aunt believe that keeping you sweet will permit them to get away with fraud. Their appalling behaviour towards your sister has shown what happens when they are questioned. They applied to administer the estate and then have not complied with the law. They have full awareness of their actions and are basically a bunch of crooks. I’m not sure how you could even consider sending a Christmas card!
You are within your rights to write to them and ask formally for the details of the distribution given the length of time that has passed. If you are lucky they may well capitulate when they realise that everything could get complicated for them. You can’t trust a word these people say so definitely get their response in writing and don’t accept less than this. They can’t now say that there wasn’t any money left as they have admitted giving it to their mother.
I too am wondering what has happened regarding the cousins from your other deceased uncle. Even if you decide not to pursue a legal case they deserve to be confronted with their actions and their fraud/theft brought into the light.

I was/am not sure whether my elderly aunt was complicit in this, but if she is not sending cards to my sister, it would imply she is, but she may have been misled by her kids, so I'm wary of assuming guilt

OP posts:
Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 16/12/2024 15:56

Christ, posts like this infuriate me. WHY ARE YOU ASKING FOR ADVICE HERE? GO AND SEE A SOLICITOR!!!!
I'm a solicitor and I have no idea how the probate rules work and/or what you're entitled to. So the multitudes of people on here will have even less clue. NOONE HERE CAN HELP YOU GET YOUR MONEY.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:57

twilightermummy · 16/12/2024 15:41

I wanted to vote YABU for this reason but I didn't want to confuse and delay the op any further!

It beggars belief how passive you've been. I really feel sorry for your sister here. If my extended family treated my sister like that they'd have a problem with me, regardless of her health.

tbh I've been influenced by my sister not choosing to take it further, but I am going to talk to her again about this, I think we have been too passive, and this upcoming abnormal Christmas has highlighted this.

OP posts:
BorgQueen · 16/12/2024 15:57

Unless the estate runs into millions, the chances of seeing a penny are slim to none.
Legal costs are usually astronomical in inheritance cases.
Presumably the Lawyer Spouse wasn’t the Administrator and /or didn’t give any ‘official’ legal advice?

GoldsolesLugs · 16/12/2024 15:57

Can we stop with all the legal advice please? (I don't mean the answers to my question, that was interesting and I asked for it).
OP didn't ask for legal advice, and more importantly, has consulted a solicitor. She's got her answers and has come here more for ethical guidance.

Takeachance18 · 16/12/2024 15:57

With ancestry.co.uk you can look up probate amount. Without a will you are right, it can't be done on how someone thinks, unless obviously everyone agrees e.g., they give a portion from their inheritance to a step child. It should be divided equally between all the siblings (and their children if already deceased).

The estate is shared equally between the brothers or sisters (not including any step-brothers, step-sisters, half-brothers or half-sisters).
If a brother or sister died before the deceased, their children (nieces and nephews of the deceased) will inherit in their place.
If any of these nieces or nephews died before the deceased, their children will inherit in their place and they are entitled to apply for probate.
If any brothers, sisters or their descendants died after the deceased, their share will become part of their own estate.

Applying for probate

Find out if you need to apply for probate to deal with the estate of someone who’s died. Discover how to apply for probate or letters of administration and what to do if there’s no will.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/apply-for-probate

FancyFran · 16/12/2024 15:58

Marvellous OP. They usually make you go through the helpline first. However it's worth getting proper legal advice.
I'm fuming for you. Google the SRA too just so you have it onside.
This is a seious matter because fraud means any solicitor loses the right to practice. (I've known a few dodgy ones!).
I've got a difficult family and every passing involves challenges. My training role was in wills, trusts and probate but I am very rusty. I wanted you to find cost effective advice. There have been a few solicitors on your thread so as long as you now cross reference you'll be OK.
If you cousins start a fight just say I'm not arguing with you but in came out of a legal conversation as my sister is ill and needs her money. If you give her yours bless you but don't tell these thieves that.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 15:58

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 15:41

So was the Uncle that died in England? And I'm assuming that the cousins who handled the estate were the inheriting Aunties kids and not those you refer to above?

If that is the case then I think you do need to ask them if they have received their inheritance or been updated on what was happening? They maybe able to tell you something that settles the way forward for you?

the cousin administering the estate told my sister that all the cash had gone to my aunt, so I am assuming not much point asking them if they got anything

We are all in England

OP posts:
GoldsolesLugs · 16/12/2024 15:59

BorgQueen · 16/12/2024 15:57

Unless the estate runs into millions, the chances of seeing a penny are slim to none.
Legal costs are usually astronomical in inheritance cases.
Presumably the Lawyer Spouse wasn’t the Administrator and /or didn’t give any ‘official’ legal advice?

Are you an expert on this - when you say "usually", have you experience of many cases? Apologies for the tone if you are, but there's so much dodgy advice on here.

GoldsolesLugs · 16/12/2024 16:03

@FancyFran "There have been a few solicitors on your thread so as long as you now cross reference you'll be OK." She's had professional legal advice. I know you're coming from a good place, but please don't advise her to take legal advice from randos on the internet.
Also, she hasn't asked for legal advice but moral/emotional advice!

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 16:04

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 14:36

There were two brothers and two sisters. The OP's mother was one of the sisters. So the OP and her sister are entitled to one third between them. This is 1/6th each.

Yep. This poster seems to be counting the number of children the deceased siblings had. It’s irrelevant. Three full blood siblings of the deceased so the estate is divided up into a one third share for each sibling, and in the case of the two siblings who pre-deceased the brother, that one third share is divided between their respective children, regardless of how many children each sibling had,