Men who quit their jobs to avoid CM payments...

[Dweetfidilove]

How do they afford to live? I often read about exes that have quit their jobs to avoid paying CM. Are there that many self-employed/cash in hand/family support set ups that enable them to not work?

How do they pay their other bills? Where do they live? Presumably they're not all on benefits, as if they are, the DWP requires them to find employment at some point and sanctions them if they don't.

Surely you wouldn't just choose a life of struggle, just to spite your ex and children?

If your ex has given up his job to avoid CM payments, how does he support himself?

I have seen this happen with a close family member. She divorced him, he tried everything not to pay CM. He was a high earner so when it went to court she got a lot but he kept dwindling it down. He eventually 'lost' his high paying job, now has 2 other children with his new wife and claims he cant afford to pay CM.

He is a scumbag but his new wife has enabled his behaviour. His children are his responsibility 100% but i will never understand why some women enable men to do this. Some of the things i have seen and heard make some women as bad as men when it comes to avoiding CM. As long as it doesnt affect them!

This is why removing passports and driving license is so effective because it does affect the whole 2nd family.

He had plenty of money, he could afford to support his child. they set his payments at £0.

I am a kinship carer. The lengths my gs's dad went to to avoid child support was unreal.

Firstly he went self employed. The company he worked for were advertising jobs at £50,000 yet his books showed earnings of £12,000 doing the same job. The CMS were actually satisfied with this stating he now had a nil contribution.

After CMS took out liability orders for longstanding arrears he even transferred his house into his parents names and hid his car at another address.

It was only after the financial investigation team asked for financial evidence going back years that he panicked and paid a lump sum. I then closed the case as it was too stressful. It took me years to get to the fraud team.

Such a sad, pathetic loser.

Sounds like we could learn fron US and Oz systems

My daughter is nearly 40 so I was dealing with the CSA in 1990s and from what I have read nothing has changed in that time.
It took me nine years to get any maintenance (£6 a week), when my daughter turned 18 the CSA had the bloody cheek to ring and ask if I still wanted them to collect the money owed ( yes I did).
It’s the same old story, feckless useless fathers doing what the hell they like, walking away from their children and their responsibility.
Society blaming the mothers, who are taking the responsibility, and then vilifying them if they dare to wear nail polish or have a phone.
Its bollocks, absolute bollocks.

I am surprised there's not a Netflix drama, about a hit squad going around dealing with non-paying partners! Could be a Lock, Stock / Black Angels / Surburban Shootout type black comedy, with a social commentary.

I know this is a serious issue, I can see that raising the issue as a drama might inspire someone, somewhere, to look seriously at this problem and deal with it!

It's the "Black Economy" which includes undeclared cash in hand work (also evading tax and NIC), self employment not declaring all income (evading tax, nic and VAT), and probably benefit fraud too, i.e. claiming benefits based on low declared earnings (if any). It's an epidemic and costing the Taxpayer billions.

I completely agree with this. I couldn’t respect a man who behaved in such a pathetic manner, unbelievable that other women go on to have more children with these specimens. Then again I’m sure men like this create a narrative whereby they are the victim somehow, and leave out the part where they are failing their child by not even providing the bare minimum for them financially.

This. Yet the men refuse to believe they are the problem (often boast about it in the pub) and would rather blame immigrants and mothers themselves.

The problem in the UK isn’t the powers that CMS have - they have all they need - it’s the lack of political will to use them.

When you consider how the current system is set up for RPs on benefits it’s very very very telling.

Previously if the RP was on benefits then they were only allowed to have £20 a week in maintenance and the rest of the calculation was owed to the Sec of State to go toward the welfare bill.

The debt owed to the SoS got bigger and bigger and bigger and there were so many non-paying NRP’s that it was decided that something must simply be done…

…so they decided RPs on benefits could keep all the maintenance. All that maintenance that they know isn’t being paid…

That this was the ‘solution’ and that is has never changed since tells you everything about political attitudes to CMS in the Uk.

Naturally. Women are blamed for everything.

It's shocking that so many people are happy to facilitate them dodging their responsibilities.
I would be utterly and loudly ashamed of any child of mine that tried to do this, so couldn't imagine helping them hide funds from my own grandchildren.

My ex had an uncle that was like this. His aunt called his dad to say - Ben isn't paying anything towards these children... He said his dad called Ben and said - Patricia called me with a pack of lies... I am happy to be your witness, so hand me the support every month and I will pass it to her, so she can spread these lie no further.
That fixed that until the 2 children were grown.

ExH gets handouts from his parent and lives off gf. Has been on benefits much of the time or worked for low wage as doesn’t need income. You can get as many gifts as you like without affecting CM or UC as long as spend them quickly. I can only assume his gf doesn’t know the truth or is really desperate not to be single as she could do a lot better. It’s cost him respect of dc - it’s a running joke how he never pays for anything when they see him.

It’ll never ever change until it becomes socially unacceptable not to pay for your child.

My ex dodged payment repeatedly. Eventually (he was military) I spoke to one of his seniors to ask if there was anything they could do. Fortunately for me he had a few superiors who were very very unimpressed by men dodging their responsibilities. As soon as this was made clear to him he started paying. The social, and professional, consequences for him made it worth paying.

Until Dave starts being ostracised by his mates for neglecting his kids, and until Steve is kicked out of the 5 a side team for being a feckless father and until Peter starts finding it impossible to find a new girlfriend because nobody likes guys that abandon their children financially it won’t change.

Until society stops making excuses for their non-payer (so many people find it abhorrent generally, but it’s ok for their brother/son/mate because he has a good reason…) it’ll never change.

I agree that enabling this pathetic behaviour is deeply problematic. I believe many of these men are seasoned manipulators, gaslighters and liars.

The CMS system is not fit for purpose. Dads who do this are not chased up by the CMS and they don't employ the sanctions within their power. I have a fair few friends in this position. They seem to tactically pursue cases based on what will be a quick win. They accepted nothing less than lies from my husbands ex (she'd split up with her boyfriend and I'm guessing wanted to make up for loss of income). He has his son as close to 50% as you can get. 3 years or tribunals etc to get it returned to the correct amount. In the meantime very aggressive tactics, inventing amounts out of thin air that would drive many people to bankruptcy or suicide. The CMS paid him compensation in the end and both CMS staff involved in the case are 'no longer with the department' meaning they conveniently couldn't do a full investigation into the complain. seems they target the ones who look a soft touch on paper and fail to hold to account the bad dads. Awful system who fails children, Mums and Dads and encourage animosity between parents.

My friends ex left her with 4 children, claimed he had a bad back and gave up working to go on long term sick pay, he then met new GF, moved in with her, had more children and was a stay at home parent whilst GF worked. My friend never received a penny from him. The current system only works for some, but I don’t know how the system can change for those who don’t get anything. I also had a friend who was self employed and paying ex through CMS and for him it wasn’t great as it wasn’t very flexible for the times he wasn’t in work due to a medical condition, again I don’t know how this can change.

I also had a friend who was self employed and paying ex through CMS and for him it wasn’t great as it wasn’t very flexible for the times he wasn’t in work due to a medical condition, again I don’t know how this can change.

I am self-employed and there are times when I can’t work or I don’t work or I don’t get paid. There isn’t an option for me to just shrug my shoulders and say sorry kiddo no food clothes heat House transport to School for you this week mummy isn’t working.

It’s just not optional

Can you imagine a Public Health advert, mum and kids in a grey hostel for Christmas/guy laughing it up in the pub with new Rolex and the clear link to tax evasion with something like "Remember, it's not always immigrants that mean people have to rely on the state".

Should be like the no seatbelt drink and drive ones. Imagine the billions back in the economy!

I woman i used to work with was full time, her husband was only part time which i thought was odd but never mentioned it. Their DD was only part time too (she was about 20 at the time)

One day she slipped up and said that her husband was married before and had 2 kids. (they would have been adults) and he had CSA arrears, and he worked part time for years to pay the absolute minimum for Child Maintenance. She actually said every penny his pays CSA is less money for their daughter.

As soon as the CSA stopped he went full time. I was really shocked and it did make me look at her differently.

These men are the lowest of the low.

As for the women who support them, some women are just desperate for a man and will do anything and believe anything he says. He will tell her that his maintenance is being used on manicures. He will tell her that he did most of the child care and the housework. He will tell her that his ex partner spent all his money on her clothes.

The new woman never seems to apply any common sense and think those things through.

I worked with a chap who had 3 girls with 2 women and was on his 3rd girlfriend who was pregnant.
He told me once that he doesn't pay Cm on the occasions when he doesn't see his girls.
I actually shouted at him that they're not pay per view, he didn't get it at all that the money was for the kids benefit. Absolute tosser saw him in a different light after that.

Pity women use this as a threat though

Presumably he was available for childcare for both children?