To say to my Dad that I won't visit unless he gets a cleaner

[TheBlueRobin]

My Dad is 65, been widowed for two years. My Mum died after a short illness and it has been a massive shock for all of us. I'm an only child - 31 and regularly come home to see Dad and we talk on the phone most days. I live 100 miles away with my partner and we need to be in that area for our careers and because we just bought our own house before my Mum got ill. So when I visit, I usually stay over for a night or two. And often spend my time cleaning for several hours because I find it too much, only for everything to build up again in the weeks I go away.

My parents had a very traditional marriage, he did nothing around the house and my Mum did everything. My Dad is naturally a very messy and chaotic person. My Mum tried to contain it but she got exasperated. But now she's gone, the house is chaos. He is a self employed tradesperson and there are tools and bits and papers everywhere, the table, the kitchen, even the bedside table and bathroom. Receipts everywhere, junk mail, litter. Nails on the floor.

He's done his best to keep on top of the main jobs and I think that's good - hoover once a week, laundry and washing up dishes. But you can see the layers of dirt and grime and dust from when things and surfaces haven't been cleaned for a while. And you need to move things to get to a surface.

He's in relatively okay health and is always busy with work but I'm pleading with him to slow down so he can commit more time to actually relaxing and taking care of himself, his home and his health. Mum would be upset to see the house like this. I don't expect a show home but basic standards.

I find the house upsetting and hard to be in with the mess and dirt. And find it disrespectful to my Mum. My Dad is grieving of course (as am I) but he is also lazy and it's not for want of me showing him things and trying to make his life easier. I've spent the morning clearing junk mail off the table and deep cleaning the kitchen while he is in bed hungover. I've shown him how to do certain things and happy to help because I care and love him but I don't think it's my role to be a maid when I come to visit when he's not elderly or infirm. I don't have children but if I did I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing them here.

He could easily afford a cleaner even just to do a deep clean once in a while, and he can top up in between.

AIBU to suggest to he get a cleaner or else I won't come visit?

It sounds like hoarding, which is a bit more complex and usually related to trauma. It wouldn’t be kind to withhold visits unless he gets a cleaner as that won’t solve the problem really - you’re punishing him for a trauma response. But you could offer to help him source a weekly cleaner, and maybe see if you/someone could help him with organisation of all the stuff so it’s less cluttered. Or you could just not clean when you go.

He won't get a cleaner because he obviously doesn't want to prioritise that. If it means you don't stay so be it.

I wouldn't be doing all this cleaning for him, no.

Does he often drink to the point it interferes with daily life?

Thank you.

No he only drinks on a Friday and Saturday night in the local pubs to be social, maybe 5-6 pints and goes home. He doesn't drink or have alcohol in the house.

Don’t do his cleaning. Don’t stay over. By all means you can speak to him about it, but you cannot dictate how clean another person should keep their house. Some people are just happy to live in shit.

Thank you. I have wondered this. My grandparents were quite similar and I remember the stacks of magazines everywhere and not being able to sit at their dining table because it was covered in things. I think it's a learnt behaviour and also a frugal mindset of not wanting to throw away and waste things.

I won't withhold visits because I love him but something has got to give.

I agree it sounds like grief, alcohol abuse and hoarding. He's not doing well.

He's an adult and ultimately you can't force him to do anything. I would certainly still nag him about getting help and i would go and see him but for sure you don't have to do his cleaning. Could you meet up elsewhere, and tell him why?

I think if he's in good health just arrange to meet at a cafe, National Trust place, whatever. It's fine to say that it upsets you to see the house looking uncared for and that you are worried about eating there if there is poor food hygiene. Also that you'd rather concentrate on enjoying time with him, rather than doing any chores - especially as keeping the house clean is not a priority for him.

I think the frugal mindset is the respectable thing that people say when what is actually happening is that they contemplate throwing eg a piece of paper away and they feel panicky, terrified and abandoned at the thought.

My neighbour is a hoarder. Social services were involved for a while and one thing that helped was choosing a specific area (her front yard) and organising a skip for 2 weeks and providing some help to clear it. She did want to do it though. The stuff can be a real burden, and as you say it sounds like learned behaviour.

Drinking 5-6 pints on Friday and Saturday nights is problem drinking OP. I know it's normalised in our culture, but that's weekend binge drinking and over time it's harmful. I'm not expecting you to be able to do anything about it, but there has been a lot of info recently in the press and on TV about what constitutes an alcohol binge and it's a lot less that I think most people realise.

As for your DF, no I would not withhold visits, but I would speak to him about his hoarding and I would do what I could to help him get a handle on it. As you say, it may be learned behaviour and if he grew up in an untidy house that's his normal. It sounds like your DM spent a lot of time managing his mess and now she's gone it's become obvious. Some people are extremely untidy. It can be trauma, ND, laziness or other things. I would try and help him to find a cleaner.

You won't change him. You can only control how you deal with him.

Stop going to clean for him - you're not his skivvy and it's dragging you down.

Could you book into a B&B or Premier Inn when you visit instead?

A cleaner would be no use if the place is covered in clutter really

Any reason he can't clean his own mess, or is he expecting a woman to clean up after him all his life?
I do most of the cleaning etc in our house because I have more time, but DH and DS know how to clean etc.

Well I wonder this as well... I'm not sure a cleaner would know where to start and how do you distinguish what is junk or useful when going through tools and invoices?

It’s his house I don’t think you can insist on anything, if he is still working a lot and doing all the extra paperwork comes with being self employed, meeting friends at the weekend and grieving he is probably knackered and it’s not a priority.

Equally you absolutely do not have to stay.

I think a cleaner would have to be quite specialist to do any good, they'd have to work with your dad to clear any of the problem areas. The company might do him good though, tbh there's more than one 'cleaner' who's really a companion carer.

He doesn't expect me to or ask me. He asks me to help with some paperwork now and again which I'm happy to.

He has these massive blind spots. I pointed out the filth in the dish drainer and crumbs under the microwave and he was shocked as he just hadn't seen it before.

Indeed. He says how tired he is which I understand but he also he works 60/70 hour weeks unnecessarily when he's financially secure, he just won't turn work down and prefers being out the house. So I said to him well something ought to give as he can't be doing this in his 70s or 80s

I would try to focus on keeping the room you stay in okay, and keep encouraging him to get an occasional deep clean. I don't think an ordinary cleaner would be able to stay on top of it as your mother did.

To be completely honest your best bet is if he remarries (in the fullness of time). He is quite young, employed, has his own home, and having been happily married for decades to a wife who filled the traditional role, he will probably not stay single forever.

I couldn’t get worked up about crumbs under the microwave. Do you think - perhaps as a reaction to his untidiness, and your concern about him more generally - you might have become hyper vigilant about the cleanliness of his house and so are also applying quite high standards to it? There’s definitely a problem, from what you’ve said, but crumbs and a grubby dish drainer is pretty minor stuff. It can feel like a controllable thing when we are grieving - we can keep it pristine, we can’t bring back mum.

To be completely honest your best bet is if he remarries (in the fullness of time). He is quite young, employed, has his own home, and having been happily married for decades to a wife who filled the traditional role,

Why would you wish this on anyone? Also he is a less attractive prospect than when he was younger. And in my experience very few women in that age bracket will want to be someone's skivvy. Anyone who is divorced or widowed is going to be quite wary of taking on somebody with a drinking habit and a hoarding disorder.

It is more likely that he will become ill eventually - from overwork and/or alcohol abuse. Sometimes, and this is very sad, things have to get worse before they get better.

Please don't threaten not to visit him! That's cruel.

Do you buy gifts for his birthday and Christmas? Instead could you pay for a regular cleaner and if it's too much for you could other family members chip in, in lieu of gifts?

Sure. I realise it sounds petty but it's amongst everything else. I'm by no means a Mrs Hinch 🤣 you should have seen me in my student days.

But regularly stepping on nails, tripping over coat hangers and going through junk mail and tools on the table covered in coffee stains and grime is quite different altogether.

I would argue there was a control thing when we first lost Mum. The day after she died, I went through their larder and threw out anything that was out of date and sorted her cleaning stuff. But now the dust has settled, quite literally and I just want my Dad to have an easier life for himself.

Of course I'll still visit him. I was just exasperated and I'm not cruel, I'm expressing concern and care.

Yes I normally focus on experiences for gifts, like I've taken him to cricket matches and live shows. He would be very offended if I bought him a cleaner without consulting him and gets quite defensive about it.

Something that's not clear to me is, does he ask you to do the cleaning? Is he expecting this? Or are you putting your standards on to him?

If it was me I'd still go and see him because he's my Dad but I wouldn't be stressing out about the standard of the house cleanliness. If he says anything suggest he gets a cleaner once a week to keep on top of it.