To say to my Dad that I won't visit unless he gets a cleaner

[TheBlueRobin]

My Dad is 65, been widowed for two years. My Mum died after a short illness and it has been a massive shock for all of us. I'm an only child - 31 and regularly come home to see Dad and we talk on the phone most days. I live 100 miles away with my partner and we need to be in that area for our careers and because we just bought our own house before my Mum got ill. So when I visit, I usually stay over for a night or two. And often spend my time cleaning for several hours because I find it too much, only for everything to build up again in the weeks I go away.

My parents had a very traditional marriage, he did nothing around the house and my Mum did everything. My Dad is naturally a very messy and chaotic person. My Mum tried to contain it but she got exasperated. But now she's gone, the house is chaos. He is a self employed tradesperson and there are tools and bits and papers everywhere, the table, the kitchen, even the bedside table and bathroom. Receipts everywhere, junk mail, litter. Nails on the floor.

He's done his best to keep on top of the main jobs and I think that's good - hoover once a week, laundry and washing up dishes. But you can see the layers of dirt and grime and dust from when things and surfaces haven't been cleaned for a while. And you need to move things to get to a surface.

He's in relatively okay health and is always busy with work but I'm pleading with him to slow down so he can commit more time to actually relaxing and taking care of himself, his home and his health. Mum would be upset to see the house like this. I don't expect a show home but basic standards.

I find the house upsetting and hard to be in with the mess and dirt. And find it disrespectful to my Mum. My Dad is grieving of course (as am I) but he is also lazy and it's not for want of me showing him things and trying to make his life easier. I've spent the morning clearing junk mail off the table and deep cleaning the kitchen while he is in bed hungover. I've shown him how to do certain things and happy to help because I care and love him but I don't think it's my role to be a maid when I come to visit when he's not elderly or infirm. I don't have children but if I did I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing them here.

He could easily afford a cleaner even just to do a deep clean once in a while, and he can top up in between.

AIBU to suggest to he get a cleaner or else I won't come visit?

He probably works so much to help with his grief and his home is then neglected. Because it's neglected he doesn't want to be in it.

A cleaner will only clean. A cleaner may not even want the job if it's dangerous with nails everywhere. Maybe someone who is specialised in this might help? Once it's sorted out he might like his home more?

Is there a cleaning service in the area? Perhaps you could schedule a service when you are there next (he pays) and supervise the cleaning, then next time they can come when you are not there and they know where everything is. At 65 he is not going to change and maybe he will keep working as long as he can as it’s easier than sitting in a house full of memories. But you should not be doing the cleaning. Help put something in place by all means.

He sounds poorly, girl 🥺

He's grieving and probably feels like shit. I hate to say it but it's your job to take care of him now. Can you organise a cleaner and get him to pay?

If he's a traditional man who likes to provide, you could frame it as asking for his help?

Sorry for your loss x

It is not a daughter's job to take care of a parent who is only in their early sixties and who is fit and well. Yes, there is a duty to keep in touch regularly, but this is someone who has agency and choices. He's not making particularly good choices but they are his to make.

In the poster's shoes I would hope that in time he realised he had to look after himself better and find more positive ways of dealing with bereavement.

There are plenty of social opportunities for older people eg U3A - so it would be relatively easy for him to build a new life for himself.

Sorry for your loss OP, sounds like you all had a tough time!

Perhaps some accessible storage boxes might help him naturally tidy as he goes. But yes I'd have a conversation about the house, that a tidy environment is helpful for his wellbeing etc

Frame it that you are struggling to see him living in a disorderly way and perhaps he can carve a couple of hours out per week to take care of himself/the house like your mum would have wanted him to.

I hate to say it but it's your job to take care of him now.

It's not 'her job' at all, but in any case it's very clear the OP is trying to take care of him.

It's bloody well not OP's job to take care of him "now". Utter sexist crap.

The man is lazy and doesn't see mess.

65 is v young. Like my parents, some older people are just lazy and dirty, like any other generation. Now your lovely mum can’t help, he can’t be bothered to learn or do anything about it. It’s fine to say that you don’t like being around the mess. If he won’t accept help, meet him in a cafe.

I'm no expert, but it doesn't sound like hoarding to me at all. It sounds more like he could have ADHD, and many people with ADHD have been described as lazy! (I live with one). Of course, he may not have a "condition" at all, and ADHD is more complex than being messy!

I don't think it's unreasonable to say you don't feel comfortable visiting the house if it hasn't been kept clean, but from your replies I don't think you actually intend to do that. I also have a slight suspicion that he might be resistant to the idea of a stranger coming into his house to clean! You could ask him if he would find it helpful.

I get where you’re coming from, and that it’s from love and grief.

But there’s a line between caring and controlling and I think you’re in the process of stepping over it.

Your dad is relatively young, mentally and physically capable. What you describe is not that he is living like this because he’s in the depths of depression, but because he doesn’t care that he’s living like this. At the end of the day it’s his house and life and you cannot dictate what standards his home life should meet.

Id suggest meeting in a neutral location, so that you don’t have to get worried about the state of his house and compare it to how your mum kept it.

"65 is v young". 🤣

It isn't that I wish it on anyone, it is just what tends to happen. A reasonably healthy man in his sixties, still working, own home, one adult daughter who lives 100 miles away, widowed after a long successful marriage...there will be women who are willing to take that on. If he was a member of a church he would already be remarried, and if he socialises with women at all it is only a matter of time.

Oh wow, i think it is the op's job to take care of him

This is life. If op fell sick, it would fall to her family to care for her and for them to arrange the support needed. That's one of the things that family is for.

Unless there are estrangement issues or the like (which isn't mentioned in the post) it's down to the op to make sure her dad is okay now as he's clearly struggling.

I'd be saying exactly the same if the op was a man.

So he is vacuuming, doing his laundry etc but not dusting and removing crumbs under the microwave. I don’t think you can dictate what his levels of cleanliness should be and anyone saying he is lazy appears to be missing the point that he hasn’t asked or expected you to do any of this for him.

No you shouldn’t demand he gets a cleaner and no you shouldn’t withhold visits.

If you don’t want to clean for him then don’t … he’s not asking you to.

I personally would do things for my parents because I love them and want to be helpful. I cleaned for my grandad every 2 weeks after my nan died … he didn’t ask me to I did it because he was family and I wanted to show care.

I find our culture somewhat shocking in terms of how we want to enforce that everyone should fend for themselves and we shouldn’t care for our parents when they are older…. They raised us.

My dad was and is the same, except this was following divorce from mum, not bereavement.

I have at various times suggested he gets a cleaner. Never happened. I wouldn't say my dads lazy - he's done a lot for others over the years, he just doesn't prioritise household maintenance .

Are you near enough to visit for the day without having to stay over?

Hi op

threatening not to visit won’t fix this. It will just drive him further into his corner. Or you will cave in and visit anyway, and he learns nothing except that you make threats and don’t follow through.

tbh it’s not your mums house anymore. I know this is hard for you to accept.

does he mind it being such a tip? Does he recognise this as a problem? If he has capacity, if he’s living alone and it doesn’t affect anyone on a daily basis, then it’s his choice.

personally I would hate If my dad did this, but I would probably accept that it’s his choice.

"Drinking 5-6 pints on Friday and Saturday nights is problem drinking OP."

The bloke's 65, he lives alone and his wife died suddenly - presumably only in her late fifties. Cut him some slack on that front.

So he's keeping on top of basic tasks?
He's an adult.. if he wants to have coat hangers lying about and coffee rings on the table then there's not much you can do. People have different standards. If he has a clear place to sleep, the bathroom works and the kitchen facilities are usable and not a health hazard.. I'm afraid general cleaning is a personal choice. Adults are allowed to make choices you don't personally agree with. There's no way to force him to have higher standards of cleanliness unless it's effecting his health.. but even then the bar where social services would step on is actually really high..
My mum is a hoarder and it's hard but you have to detach
I make sure basic areas are safe and that's it.
It sounds like your dad is doing that on his own which is good. But you unfortunately cannot force someone to live how you think it would be best for them to live. And trying is just going to cause endless stress to you and will not work.
I think you just need to take a step back. He's an adult and these are choices he's making. They may not seem like good choices but he has the right to make them.

Your dad's only a few years older than me. He's clearly not a helpless old man.

The problem is that in ten, twenty years things will have got worse, he'll be older, less fit, less energetic, more potentially harmful mess, more stuff. And sadly when the time comes - you'll have to deal with it.

He is grieving and that can have profound effects. Depression, descending into chaos is very common. I've been in a decluttering group and some of the accounts of what lies beneath the surface clutter are very sad.

Would grief counselling be a possibility?
https://www.cruse.org.uk/

If he came from a chaotic home, he's never learned mindsets and habits.

And then your mum tidied up after him.

And now he is also falling back into his accustomed pattern that is ... women clean. He is expecting this of you because it's unthinkable that he should do it.

If a cleaner comes in nothing will change. He needs to.

I like the concept (tho not the name) of Swedish Death Cleaning. https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/organizing/a43826147/swedish-death-cleaning/

You might find the Marie Kondo method helpful - starting with ideal outcomes and goals, then tacking categories in order of ease of doing. Clothes then books then paperwork then all the various types of things he has then finally the hardest one, sentimental. https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/organizing/a25846191/what-is-the-konmari-method/

It's difficult and of course you want to keep seeing him. But if he won't change maybe meeting somewhere else is the only reasonable option especially with your own busy life to consider.

Your dad's my age. DH and I still work full-time all the time.

Your dad is grieving.
His life has beennturned upside down
He's let the house go through never having acquired the skills to keep it decent and through his grief
He's coping by drinking.

Whilst I don't think you should clean or stop seeing him, I do think @TheBlueRobin you need to take the bull by the horns. Explain you are worried, explain the place is a mess and vermin might be encouraged, tell him you love him and are worried about his well-being. Make him a Dr's appointment. Find him some support.

Thank you for some helpful suggestions. There's one thing I would like to clarify. It has been implied several times that my Dad has turned to alcohol to cope. That is not the case. He is a man of habit and has had the same routine of going to the pub twice a week since he was in his twenties, he's part of a darts team and enjoys the socialising. I don't begrudge him that. He will never drink in the house. I did have my concerns when we first lost Mum but they were unfounded. He actually drinks far less than when he was younger, simply because he knows his body isn't cut out for it anymore.

I think you need to stop tiptoeing around him and have a serious and hard conversation.

explain that you enjoy your visits and want to keep coming but the state of his home is making it difficult for you to be able to want to stay in the house.

do your research and find a cleaner who would be willing to come to your dads house once/twice a week and tell him you have someone lined up who’s willing to help. The thought of finding someone might be overwhelming for him and a factor as to why he’s ignoring it.

explain to him this his life would be less stressful and more peaceful if he decluttered and had some order. Arrange a weekend where you go through everything in the house and bin/recylce/donate as much as possible.

My neighbour is a hoarder and not very clean. It's got to the point were no-one can visit and he is very lonely. For the last two years he has started to smell. The invites out are getting less and people won't share taxis/give lifts. I've offered to help him with his washing, but he is very stubborn. He took for granted that he could always visit others, but things gave changed. I don't know if there's anything you can do, but talk through how the house makes you feel. I've had to be really clear with my, near 60, DP. that his house was going to be unlivable if he didn't put time and money into it. I'd talk through how he sees his life going as he ages. If he can't be bothered now, it's only going to get worse.

Just to add it isn't a cleaner, but a household helper, he needs, to tidy. You can get male and female ones from agencies.

No it doesn’t.