To say to my Dad that I won't visit unless he gets a cleaner

[TheBlueRobin]

My Dad is 65, been widowed for two years. My Mum died after a short illness and it has been a massive shock for all of us. I'm an only child - 31 and regularly come home to see Dad and we talk on the phone most days. I live 100 miles away with my partner and we need to be in that area for our careers and because we just bought our own house before my Mum got ill. So when I visit, I usually stay over for a night or two. And often spend my time cleaning for several hours because I find it too much, only for everything to build up again in the weeks I go away.

My parents had a very traditional marriage, he did nothing around the house and my Mum did everything. My Dad is naturally a very messy and chaotic person. My Mum tried to contain it but she got exasperated. But now she's gone, the house is chaos. He is a self employed tradesperson and there are tools and bits and papers everywhere, the table, the kitchen, even the bedside table and bathroom. Receipts everywhere, junk mail, litter. Nails on the floor.

He's done his best to keep on top of the main jobs and I think that's good - hoover once a week, laundry and washing up dishes. But you can see the layers of dirt and grime and dust from when things and surfaces haven't been cleaned for a while. And you need to move things to get to a surface.

He's in relatively okay health and is always busy with work but I'm pleading with him to slow down so he can commit more time to actually relaxing and taking care of himself, his home and his health. Mum would be upset to see the house like this. I don't expect a show home but basic standards.

I find the house upsetting and hard to be in with the mess and dirt. And find it disrespectful to my Mum. My Dad is grieving of course (as am I) but he is also lazy and it's not for want of me showing him things and trying to make his life easier. I've spent the morning clearing junk mail off the table and deep cleaning the kitchen while he is in bed hungover. I've shown him how to do certain things and happy to help because I care and love him but I don't think it's my role to be a maid when I come to visit when he's not elderly or infirm. I don't have children but if I did I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing them here.

He could easily afford a cleaner even just to do a deep clean once in a while, and he can top up in between.

AIBU to suggest to he get a cleaner or else I won't come visit?

It’s up to him how he wants to keep his house.

And then it’s up to you whether you want to visit.

But do encourage him to get some help.

Yanbu to suggest he employs a cleaner - it sounds like the perfect solution to me! Sorry if I've missed it as your op is quite long - but have you had the conversation with him?

You might need to look for a specialist - there's a cleaner near me that does everything. By that I mean she will walk a dog, do your food shop, organise wardrobes, put up Christmas decorations, help you pack for moving or decluttering... anything
She will even go in if you're in hospital and do a full clean and restock the fridge

Poor him (and you). It's very sad for you both. My father in law (dead for many years now) was a bit like this when he was widowed. He was also out of the house a lot, mostly because he felt lonely in it without his wife. He did accept a cleaner in the end, but it took quite a lot of gentle persuasion over a long time. You know you can't make him do it.

We arranged a weekend where DH and I spent a couple of days with him and helped declutter/find spaces and places for everything (lidded, labelled, large transparent boxes are your friend!) then started a twice weekly cleaner straight after that. She became a good friend to him as he got older and it was good knowing someone was dropping in regularly.

Would something like that help?

Sorry I could only read some of the replies 🙄

I've read yours op, tbh many men who reach this age and having lived a traditional life, it's very hard to get them to change.

Everyone is different and there's no point comparing him to others in their 60s, my own father when alive worked every hour, had his 3 nights out a week with mam, friends and his club, when he retired and mam died he went the same as yours, we definitely thought it was a form of hoarding, he found it very difficult to throw things out as he seen sentimental value in everything, mam threw everything out, cleaned like mad and of course it became extremely obvious when she died.

What I found was he was insulted when we came and cleaned for him, so I'd do sneaky cleans, say I was having a shower and scrub the bathroom, when he'd meet his friends I'd hoover and mop everywhere, it was easier that way as I could fly through it and he didn't feel shame which he'd often say to me. I never threw anything out, but did get lots of storage suitable for his needs and I labeled everything and would just put everything into each box/drawer. There was no way he'd let a cleaner in so I'd definitely check with him if you do go down that route.

There were times I tried limiting things to a couple of drawers, presses, a handful of mugs and plates but it always went back to square one. I ended up staying in a hotel when visiting because he never kept up with the basics or didn't do them properly.

Your dad will be grieving just like you for a very long time, it's important he keeps his mind active and his nights out with friends. He's not an alcoholic, but on here a thimble of beer and you need to go to AA. It's hard for him to change and it's hard for you to see him live like this. We want to make things better and nice and easy for them but sometimes they like it that way and sometimes they want to change.

I would tend to agree with this. Your DF is an adult who has his own choices on how he lives. You don't need to agree with his choices. My father lived in chaos and I tried to help and clean and clear but it just agitated him so I had to stop. Some people he knew tried to make me override my father and tell him lies to facilitate clearing the clutter but I refused. It would have upset my father and that would not have been helpful. I thought about a cleaner but it would just have caused him aggravation and distress. If I was you, I'd visit but book into a local hotel or Premier Inn. And stop cleaning. There's no point. He needs to live with the consequences of his own decisions. Once I accepted that in my father's situation, it was better for both of us. Once he went into a care home eventually, family helped clear the home of his stuff.

Stay in a hotel or AirBnB and explain why!

This in buckets. And x 100.

I have been cleaning for people for almost 21 years and I will never, ever clean for anyone who does not make that call themselves. Fair enough if someone pays me to do some cleaning in the home of a parent who is, say, in hospital, and I'm hired & paid to do it by the homeowners children (or whoever), but I will absolutely never work for anyone who has been "told" to get a cleaner, because in my vast experience they don't want one. The person who needs the cleaner has to be in the right mindset, and they have to be the one who calls me.

Not being in the right mindset is not good for the person who needs help with the cleaning.

It is also terrible for the cleaner, because the client is not committed to the process, they will cancel at the drop of a hat and think it's fine just top have the next visit instead, and they will not appreciate the work that is done, or how much effort goes into maintaining it.

I worked for a man & wife for almost 15 years. For twelve of them, I took instruction from the wife, and between us we kept the house in good condition. Then she died and it all went to pot. Husband hadn't a clue how to run the house, and cared even less...I have no problem with that, but when every single cleaning visit is cancelled and then I'm expected to go in six weeks later and do my magic, it just doesn't work...I have to fill that cancelled slot, and even though I have always had too much work, I can't fill it with only a few hours notice as other clients need time to prepare their homes for my arrival.

To add insult to injury, I'd bust a gut to get the place sorted out, and then it would be "oh, I don't need a cleaner this week, I haven't made the place a mess". This man was thoroughly adorable and I had such loyalty to him, given the time I'd worked for his wife, but the situation was totally unsustainable. He more than had the money to pay me every week, and the house was big enough to require it so as to keep on top of everything (even when he went on holiday), but what was lacking totally was his desire to commit to the process. Ironically, his wife had struggled with cleaners before me, as it was they who refused to commit...she was skeptical of me at first, until she realised I was in it for the long-haul too, and we got along fabulously for many years.

I cannot emphasis it enough, that your dad has to be on board with the whole program, because if you are able to convince him to get a cleaner, and you are lucky enough to find a good one who can fit him into their schedule, they won't stand for being messed about by someone who's not committed to having them.

Fine to suggest a cleaner. Not fine to issue an ultimatum.

Your father is doing well to manage as much as he is.

Encouraging him to get a cleaner is a good idea, but I can tell you from experience that losing your spouse is earth shattering. Of course you're grieving too, OP, but please don't underestimate the effect that your mother's death has had on your father.

I get what you're saying about traditional marital roles, but I'd hazard a guess that your father is suffering from grief related depression.

I'm in a slightly different situation, in that I have no children - my closest family members are cousins who live a good distance away so there was no one to chivvy me along. The first two years after my husband died, it took me all my time to move off the sofa, never mind anything else.

I believe that some firms offer a decluttering service? Maybe you need to start there, rather than with a cleaner? Only one room at a time, so as not to be too overwhelming for all concerned?

Believe you me, after losing their spouse most people are not in their right mind. (No, I can't give you any kind of statistics, but I've connected with other widows.)

OP I am so sorry for your loss and for all you are going through.
It is a very difficult situation but left unchecked it will only get worse. You are both grieving and it does sound like your DF is a hoarder.
The problem is none of us can tell someone else how they should live and if your DF chooses to live like this I am not sure what you can do about. You can try and talk to him but whether he will listen is another thing.
As for the drinking the alcohol intake you have described sounds excessive to me. Also how much do you actually know about his drinking as you obviously aren't around 24/7, I would be concerned about his drinking as well.
Good luck with sorting this out OP, I hope you have support with doing so

Drinking isn't unusual for men who have lost their wives, in my experience. I'm stating the obvious, but it's a form of self-medication. I'm wondering whether the OP's GP would be able to refer him to counselling.

(No guarantees of course - there was none available in my area and Cruse didn't have any spaces available in local groups...but the OP's father might be luckier.)

I think you could talk to him about getting a cleaner, without making him defensive, if you suggested it's because he works such long hours. You could find someone who would also help with tidying/organising. There might still be unopened mail when you visit but it would all be in one place.

I think a lot of it will be grief, if he's now having to do what your mum always did he will find that hard, because he never had to think about it before it doesn't come naturally to everyone. Have a chat with him about a cleaner and if he agrees help him find a good one .

No do NOT clean when you go. He can afford a cleaner and you are not his skivvy! You are there to visit him not to do menial chores because he cant be bothered to do them himself. Yes he may well be depressed but you wont help that by spending your time cleaning up after him.

I completely misread the post as simply clean when you go! Sorry

See if you can get him to stick to a sorting system first.
Nothing fancy, a box for paperwork.
A box for all his loose bits etc.
And see if a cleaner could be introduced after that if he agrees.

Op has already said he goes out twice a week and doesn't drink in between.

That doesn't sound like an alcohol problem.

My dad wasn’t interested in housework and was particularly messy.

i used to clean up 2 x a year but eventually I just said, you need a fortnightly cleaner and I’ll sort you out with someone.

he was fine about having a cleaner and would tidy up before she came, as he had a reason to tidy up. Plus it never got that messy any more.

just tell him he needs a cleaner

nit sure how you can want someone to slow down a bit as they are doing to much, then call them lazy

I wonder if he might need someone to help him with his work rather than a cleaner? Or as well as.

I wouldn't worry about the drinking - it might be more than recommended but two nights out a week with mates is probably vital to him, especially now.

Does he have an outside shed for his tools and work equipment?
Thats the first thing to sort out? If not can he get a shed?

Can an area be created to contain the paperwork in a spare room, make it an office space.

as paper work and tools everywhere appears to be the issue, surely once this is organised that’s the crux of the problem sorted. Then I would get a company in weekly to deep clean every room, then once on top of every room, a maintenance clean every week.