To just cancel the meeting if this friend doesn't confirm tonight?

[suzettenoisette]

I have a new friend who tends to change plans all of the time. Let's say we decided to meet for coffee a week ago and chose a time, date and place. She will then contact me several times throughout the week to make changes and adjustments.

I do believe that she wants to meet me because she initiates most meetings, but the change of plans is driving me crazy. I have already told her that it would be great if she'd confirm earlier, because her last minute planning is difficult for me to manage as I also want to spend time with family and have chores to do. I don't have many friends here yet and that is maybe why I'm trying again and again but wondering if I should just not bother anymore? She is a nice person, but even though I have told her that this is hard for me it doesn't seem to change.

Our most recent conversation for a meeting tomorrow went like this:

She wrote on Monday if I would like to meet this weekend. I said: "Sure" and asked her if she had something specific in mind. She said she'd like to go for coffee and suggested a cafe she likes. I asked her if time X fit her and she said "yes". So for me it was arranged and I looked forward to it. I have a busy week and she contacted me on Wednesday again asking if I wanted to do something else (bowling) at a different time and in a different place instead. I told her that I would prefer to stick to the original plan as I know from experience she always tries to change things and I'm stressed out by it, which she knows. She said "okay". On Friday she contacted me again saying that she couldn't get a table at this cafe. I had previously asked her if I should make the reservation as I have done lots of bookings for our meetings before, but she said she'd take care of it. So she told me we'd have to go to another place and she picked one that is two tube stations away from the original place so that was fine by me.

Today she contacts me again and says that she wants to meet earlier because the new cafe is further away and she wants to spend more time with me. But for me it is inconvenient to change the time yet again and the new cafe is less than 10 minutes away from our original meeting place. It also closes at 8 pm so we'd have lots of time. The replies to my last thread also helped me stay strong and not cave in again, so thanks for that (it is here, if you'd like to read it, I listed another conversation that we had earlier so you can see how it always goes: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5229148-planning-a-day-and-some-red-flags-am-i-the-problem?reply=140495090 )

She is now not repyling anymore, since I told her that I want to stick to the original time. Would you just go there tomorrow at time X or not? If she confirms tomorrow, should I go or cancel due to her giving me such short notice? She knows it stresses me and that I can't plan the rest of my day, e.g. go for breakfast with my family or book a sports class.

Sorry, this thread probably doesn't portray accurately how stressful it is, maybe also read our conversation before this one in the other thread. She always does this and it's so hard for me not knowing when we will meet and if we will meet as I can't plan things around our meetings. It's like she wants me to sit around all day and wait and not be able to arrange other things. We're also in London, so if she changes the location this can add lots of time to the journey as it is a huge city.

Thanks a lot for helping. It feels so good to just tell someone. She often doesn't write either, but sends long voice messages and it just stresses me out to listen to them several times per week and rearranging plans again and again.

What do I do? Go there? Wait for a reply? Cancel if she doesn't answer tonight? Or should I tell her again?

I couldn't be doing with so much brain-power just to meet up for a coffee.

why does she think you need to book a table in a cafe, ridiculous.

I met up with my friend yesterday for our normal pre-Christmas catch up. I sent a WA message at the start of the week, we agreed the venue (choice of 3 cafes in town) and day/time which was 1 exchange of WAs. On the day, it was "see you at 3.30pm". Done, no way would either of us mess about changing it numerous times, we both have busy lives and neither of us wants to inconvenience the other.

this friend is a liability, time to reconsider whether they're worth all the hassle nope

What a pain in the ass. Why are you even bothering with this?

You just need to change the way you coordinate things with her. Arrange a time and place with her and tell her you’ll assume it’s going ahead unless she tells you otherwise. Any changes respond with let’s stick to the original plan please, I’ll assume you can make it unless you say otherwise.

This way you assume it’s going ahead unless directly told otherwise.

She sounds like she may have ADHD, so it maybe something she does unintentionally and not be specific to you. More a reflection on how she manages her diary. However Brest put your own boundaries in so that it’s manageable for you.

‘

She sounds like way too much hard work, OP. I understand if something crops up and an adjustment of different time/place etc would be easier, but every time? And making continual adjustments? That's showing a lack of respect for you. Also her with the tube thing. She sounds too self-absorbed and lacking in consideration.

I had a friend who did this. Every single arrangement would change several times.

Often she'd found something better to do and she'd say. 'I'm doing xxx on Wednesday instead. Do you want to come?'

Keeping our original plan was never an option. I stopped bothering with her. That's not a friendship, I was just the back up plan if nothing else came along.

This

You really shouldn't have to but for your own sanity I would.

You asked what we thought you should do in the future. I would tolerate an awful lot, too much, if I had moved and was making friends from scratch. I have done that and do not recommend i. I’ve learned to start any new friendships as I want them to be and compromise little, just respectfully move on until I meet like minded people.

So I think at your next meeting pay close attention and see if there is anything about her that outweighs her awful annoying behaviour.

IF there isn’t, wind things up as quickly as you can without being rude and tell her it’s good to have met her but you won’t be seeing her again. Then keep walking.

Just a little update:

We met for breakfast this morning in a nice part of London. When we arrived we found out that the cafe she picked was fully booked. I asked her if she had made a booking, she said it wasn't possible. I was surprised because she changed plans short notice because her original choice of cafe was booked, so I assumed she had made sure this time that tables were available. I had offered to make a reservation for the original choice, but she had declined.

We had to take the bus, but new place we found was nice. I ordered a croissant and tea. I went to the counter to get the tea and she then asked me if it was my first croissant or my second. I found that a bit odd, but decided to shrug it off.

She then told me that her contract was terminated. She is 33 and at uni, she was supposed to graduate in the summer, but didn't complete an exam. She is now doing an internship in a hotel that was supposed to last about 3 months, but they let her go after just a month. I asked her why and they said that she was told that she didn't provide good customer service and that the customers weren't happy with her. I felt really bad for her actually. I hope she will find a new internship.

The last thing that happened was that a woman she knew showed up at the cafe. She was a cousin of a friend, if I understood correctly. I was bringing back the dishes to the counter and helping her with hers, but when the woman showed up she told me that it was fine and that I could leave if I wanted to and she would stay a bit longer at the cafe with the woman. I didn't really mind because I had finished my breakfast and we were about to leave anyway.

I feel like a bad person because I don't want to meet her anymore even though I think she is struggling a bit with keeping a job, her degree etc., but I always feel drained and sad after meeting her. Probably should have listened to you and not have gone at all. Will close this chapter now. Thanks again so much for your help.

Forgot to mention that I told her about my aerobics class and she said she'd like to come. I told her that I prefer to do sports by myself and she told me that she'd still like to come at least once, ignoring my answer. So guess she will contact me again, but I will not meet her again.

I think you know what you need to do.
They let her go at the hotel after only one month, the customers weren’t happy with her… I’m not surprised, she’s vile, and it’s her fault not yours.
She was supposed to graduate in the summer but didn’t complete the exam… her fault not yours.
She asked you if it was your first or second croissant… she was preparing to bully you batter your confidence.
When another friend turn up she told you you could leave, basically she dismissed you, she had no further need of your company… and you didn’t mind?!!! And you feel like a bad person 😱
Only you can decide if you are going to continue to allow this person to insult you, walk all over you, dismiss you, disrespect you, and treat you like the 💩 under her shoe.
You’ve had a lot of good advice that you should get this person out of your life and run a mile from her. Its your choice whether you take it.
If you want to keep feeling bad, drained, stressed, sad, bullied, unworthy, then keep right on seeing her… it’s your call.
Keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always got”.

She's not the right person for you if she makes you feel drained. Good for you for moving on from this one.

I think best to leave it. It really ought not be this stressful to meet up for a coffee.

I used to have a friend who sounds remarkably similar. And whenever we would meet up (after alot of changes and faffing about) somehow someone else she knew was alway either there as well or would arrive and clearly had had this arrangement made. The second last straw for me was when turned up for a lunch date a few minutes before 1 pm after being texted 10 minutes before that she had changed the plan and was now somewhere other than where we had planned to meet and i arrived and found she was with a couple of other people and they all had already finished their lunch.

The very last straw was similar but was just a step too far after all the shitting about she had put me through.

@SeAmableSiempre Thanks for your comment! I think I didn't mind because I was so relieved that I could leave. I don't know why I feel slightly guilty, but I've made the decision to not meet her again.

She sounds like a really difficult person from what you've said.

Stick with this decision. It’s not your job to cushion her life.

I have a friend like this. She has ADHD. Often changes plans and it can be very stressful. In the past I’ve tried to get her to commit to a plan so I can plan around it, but it doesn’t work.
so now I accept is as part of the parcel of friendship with her, she’s a wonderful person with so many wonderful qualities, but I know not to book anything else when I’m meeting her and keep a window of a few hours either way for lateness or changes in the plan. Sometimes I have genuinely been worried if she’ll actually turn up or not. Shes a friend I’ve known for ages and love her to bits. I don’t see her that often, I guess I can only do the above occasionally

You're a kind friend. I personally just can't deal with it anymore. It's not just the constant changes of where and when we meet, but also the unfriendly comments. My own mental health suffers, when I constantly have to spend time on planning something as easy as having a coffee together and I only have a few free days per week, I don't want to spend them sitting around, hoping that someone decides to see me.

From reading your posts OP you sound like a nice, empathetic and caring person. Unfortunately your friend is none of these things and is preying on you because she can mess you around and you will tolerate it (or so she thinks).
But don’t put up with it any longer. Not only is it making you sad, it might be preventing you from meeting other, far nicer people because you’re busy with this head case. Cut all contact - you won’t regret it.

Little update:

I decided to give it another try, which I regret as things have not gotten better. I now want to end the friendship. How do I do this? Due to her behaviour I feel like a direct message telling her will lead to denial, blaming me and gaslighting. Any ideas? Then on some days I feel like a bad person for wanting to end the friendship as I feel that she depends on me. I just don't know what to do, but I feel drained and unhappy after every time meeting her.

Things that have happened that made me realise that things really won't change:

• We met yesterday and she didn't reply and confirm again until I asked her to please confirm (not a horrible thing, but annoying). She was also late again even though it was an event you needed to be punctual for (cinema). She apologised this time.
• We went for a meal afterwards and she again commented on my eating habits, saying "Wow" when I decided to get another helping at the buffet.
• I asked her whether she was done eating after we spent a long time at the restaurant and she said that she was. Then I told her I would like to go home as I had work early the next morning. She then said she would like another dessert after all. Not a big deal in general, but she has often tried to keep me from leaving after I had announced that I wanted or needed to go home not respecting my decision.
• I went to the station and she insisted on taking the tube with me, even though she doesn't need to go into that direction. I asked her why as it wasn't convenient for her at all and she would have to take a 25 minute walk to get home whereas otherwise she could go home directly. She said she wanted to walk, but I find it oddly controlling that she doesn't really want to let me go.
• She told me about an ex boyfriend she was with for 2 years. She said that she hangs out in places he goes to in the hopes of accidentally meeting him there. One of the places he always hangs out at is a bar we went to a few times and that she insisted we go to even though it is not particularly nice. So she kind of used me just to hang out somewhere where she might meet her ex.
• She told me that the ex didn't want to call her every day during their relationship and that she was angry about that as daily phone calls are normal and he should have called her from work.
• She told me that she wanted to meet him one day and was mad that he wouldn't make time to see her. She argued that anyone who cares about you can spare 30 minutes. I tried to explain to her that people have jobs and a social life and that most people can't just take 30 minutes out of their day to see someone on short notice but she didn't understand. We live in London so not like it is small and you can just go everywhere in 10 minutes.
• She always asks which bus I take, which station I get off, where I live exactly, where my family lives exactly (not just general area, but exact bus stop etc.). I normally would have told her ages ago where I live exactly and invited her, but her intense questions surrounding this have creeped me out and I haven't invited her to my home yet.
• She recently had an affair with a drug addict. He then decided he just wanted to be friends. She told him she didn't want a friendship. She told me that she still writes to him every day and I asked why given that he has told her he doesn't want a relationship and she said "maybe he will change his mind, I will keep on trying".

I also feel sorry for her and I did enjoy aspects of our friendship, but I just feel like she has issues with people setting boundaries and I feel like it is not healthy for me to be her friend. What do you think? Really need some advice as I feel so torn. I want to walk away but somehow feel guilty.

I’m not sure it’s worth saying anything. But she seems to have stalkerish tendencies so maybe you should so that she doesn’t start following you around.

Dear Elsie. I’ve been reflecting on our last couple of meetings as I realised that they made me feel very uncomfortable. I don’t think we are compatible as friends. I didn’t want to ghost you, which is why I am letting you know. I know that you’ve had some difficult times recently and I hope that you are able to find the support need in the future. All the best.

Don’t fet drawn into a discussion. If she asks what the issues are you can give her a couple of examples but if she doesn’t take this as the end that it is, block her.

Thank you. I'm wondering if she would get more intense if I wrote a message ending the friendship as this would show her that I wasn't interested in pursuing it further and therefore trigger a response/fear in her to try everything to save it. Maybe simply not suggesting anything and being busy when she writes would be better, but that would also feel mean/not right to me :(

@suzettenoisette you are going to have to decide who you put first her or yourself ? If you choose her who do you think she will
choose ?

Life's too short for this. Don't go, don't reply to any messages. Ditch her.

OP she is using your good nature against you. It’s obvious you feel very strongly about not wanting to do anything that will be perceived as ‘mean’ ‘not right’ - she knows this and is pushing the limits with you to see how far she can get.

You really just need to stop replying to her. Explanations and sorrys and messages are never going to get through to her. She has been rude and inconsiderate towards you and you need to toughen up and shrug her off. You’ve had 2 threads on her now, she has so much hold over you and it’s not normal. Focus on your family, sports classes, good friends etc. and just forget about her. She will move on to someone else.

OP, I remember your other threads. To be honest, you’re coming across equally oddly here. The ‘friendship’ simply doesn’t work for you, and never has — not just the way she makes and changes arrangements, her transport preferences, her desire for particular patterns and duration of contact etc, but you appear frequently irritated or upset by things she says, and say your MH suffers from contact with her. Things which have no immediate relevance to you, like her most recent relationship, are clearly bothering you. You don’t like her. You don’t trust her enough to tell her where you live! And it’s a comparatively new fruendship. Why on earth have you persisted in it?