Page 3 | Question for Jevovah’s Witnesses or ex Witnesses

Jozephine · 2024-12-13T14:39:01+00:00

Not really an AIBU, but not sure where to ask this. I’ve got friends who are JW. The know I don’t believe, and are very closed about their beliefs to me and just shut down conversation if I talk about religion. So my question is around death and funerals. my friends were recent converts and none of their extended family or friends are JW. There have been a number of funerals in their family recently. As these family members were not JW will the belief be that they will be burnt in the eternal fires at judgement day? I can’t square it with my friend saying that her dad is now ‘at peace’ if she believes that’s going to be his fate? If I believed the things JWs claim then I would be a mess thinking of all my dead loved ones who would have such a fate waiting for them. How does it work?

Lessstressedhemum · 14/12/2024 21:13

The 144,000 are "anointed" and chosen by God. They include "faithful" people from throughout history, as far as I can remember (it's been a long time). You know you're one of the anointed as you have no desire to live here on a restored earth.

JWs recruit to avoid blood guilt. If they don't try hard enough to preach and convert, they will have the blood of people who could potentially have been recruited on their hands come Armageddon.

Someone asked if you could choose to follow JW faith at Armageddon. No, you can't. If, come THE END, you haven't already converted, you're toast. Even if you are a JW, you might still be toast if you haven't been a good enough one. The ones who get the choice are all those who have died without having the opportunity to learn and accept the truth. So everyone who ever lived before JWs were invented, basically. They will be resurrected, taught and given the choice. If at any time you then disobey, you're toast. There will be plenty of room and plenty of resources for everyone because god will make it so.
All Christians don't believe in Hell. Very few do, nowadays. Most denominations teach that Hell is basically the absence of God. So there is no burning in a fiery pit of doom. Generally, you just cease to exist.

Lessstressedhemum · 14/12/2024 21:23

They also believe that the rest of us are basically devil worshippers, that mainstream Christianity is the Great Whore of Babylon predicted in the bible and that they alone have The Truth. Even though that Truth has changed so many times since I was a teen that I've lost count.
As I said earlier, it is a very harsh, OT, judgement focused eschatological religion and it meets all the criteria of a cult. The governing body are a bunch of very wealthy, sex obsessed old white men who teach that they, and they alone, have a hotline to God who discloses His truth to them via ongoing revelation of what they call Light. So, if they get something wrong, like the endless predictions of dates for the end of the world, they can just say that God has given them more up to date, correct Light.

ChristmasFox · 14/12/2024 21:25

Workingclasslass · 13/12/2024 14:42

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in hell they do believe that when people die that’s it what they do believe is when the end of the world comes the people dead will be resurrected and they will get a chance again to know the truth and if they then decide to reject it they will be killed and that’s it. They will be gone from eternity. Actually, when they talk about the end of the world, they also say that the people alive at that point it’s gonna be really bad and they will be killed as well for rejecting the truth.

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They will be gone from eternity.

Blimey. Religions are so odd - all of them!

ChristmasFox · 14/12/2024 21:29

lljkk · 13/12/2024 21:31

What are the odds that any single JW (who ever lived) will be among the 144,000 ?
Must be like ... 1 in a thousand? Or 1 in 10,000 ? 1 in 100,000 even?
I admire JWs for rejecting concept of Hell, but making it so impossible to be one of those who gets eternal life, that is hardly fair.

Living forever must be dull, don't U think? Like Barbieland maybe.

working out some maths... 8.6 million JWs now, in world, says Google.
1/144000 would be just 1 in 60 of those.
Include all the JWs that ever lived...  Must be at least the same number, right?

If end of world comes tomorrow odds no better than 1:120 I suppose of being one of the chosen.

It’s like trying to get Taylor Swift tickets. Maybe there’s ticket touts.

ChristmasFox · 14/12/2024 21:30

Paradise Earth sounds nice though.

AlwaysGinPlease · 14/12/2024 21:33

Two of these verminous creatures popped their crappy little leaflet through our door and then they left a bloody message on our ring doorbell. There is nowhere on the leaflet to call to ask them never to set foot on our property again though.

Lessstressedhemum · 14/12/2024 21:35

AlwaysGinPlease · 14/12/2024 21:33

Two of these verminous creatures popped their crappy little leaflet through our door and then they left a bloody message on our ring doorbell. There is nowhere on the leaflet to call to ask them never to set foot on our property again though.

Contact your local Kingdom Hall and ask to be put on the no call list.

AlwaysGinPlease · 14/12/2024 21:48

@Lessstressedhemum thank you, I will do that

WomanIsTaken · 14/12/2024 21:52

I think you're right, OP -many JWs do find it stressful and a source of considerable anxiety. DPs JW mum has been trying to convert me and draw DP back into the truth for twenty years (he left in his teens and was shunned for almost 20 years). She becomes very tearful and agitated when she tries to explain to us how sad it makes her that we ‐including her grandchildren who are born out of wedlock‐ will likely suffer greatly in Armageddon and not know eternal life. She is the staunchest person of faith I've ever met and is unable to afford herself the luxury of ambiguity or interpretation of scripture.

Exasperateddonut · 14/12/2024 22:00

Sorry if I’ve missed it, but where did the 144k come from? It’s a very specific number!

Youvebeenframed · 14/12/2024 22:34

Interesting thread. I’ve always been fascinated by JW…. I think it’s completely bonkers but fascinating nonetheless.
Ten years ago or more I worked with a great bloke. He was 10 years younger than me, great fun, loved a drink, mad footie supporter, loved to party, 80’s Brit pop… camp as a row of tents and a JW!
We’d talk at length about his upbringing and he endured my endless Q&A’s about JWs.
He was without doubt gay but this was not “out” within his family and JW community 🥴 … 🙈🙉
His mum, sister and auntie were all JW but his Dad, a long distance lorry driver wasn’t.
He’d had a period in his life when he went rogue; moved to the city, lived his best gay life, got caught up drinking heavily and taking drugs.
When he couldn’t sustain the lifestyle he had to return home to his small community and was taken back in by his family and into the JW community. This was obvs all a big act for him. He did it for a roof over his head and to keep the peace with his family. He did the whole door knocking thing, gave over a portion of his salary, didn’t celebrate Christmas or birthdays etc
On staff nights out though, he knew he was in his safe place and reverted to the fun outwardly gay guy that he was.
He became a troubled soul and would drink heavily alone in his bedroom every night which ultimately badly affected his work and he was “let go”.
As far as I know he is still a part of the JW community but still
nips into the city every now and again 🤩 …. I hope he is truly happy

ObelixtheGaul · 15/12/2024 09:40

Workingclasslass · 14/12/2024 19:50

If you read some of the following posts that have come on before this, you would understand what the reasoning is. There’s only a small minority as in the 144000 going to heaven.
But the great crowd is everybody else which stays on paradise Earth because we were never meant to be in heaven that’s what is in to be resurrected?

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Yes, that's what I said...

Workingclasslass · 15/12/2024 10:14

Exasperateddonut · 14/12/2024 22:00

Sorry if I’ve missed it, but where did the 144k come from? It’s a very specific number!

It comes from the Bible How many will be resurrected to heaven?
The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4) In the vision recorded at Revelation 14:1-3, the apostle John saw “the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000.” In this vision, “the Lamb” represents the resurrected Jesus. (John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:19) “Mount Zion” represents the exalted position of Jesus and the 144,000 who rule with him in the heavens.—Psalm 2:6; Hebrews 12:22.

Workingclasslass · 15/12/2024 10:16

WomanIsTaken · 14/12/2024 21:52

I think you're right, OP -many JWs do find it stressful and a source of considerable anxiety. DPs JW mum has been trying to convert me and draw DP back into the truth for twenty years (he left in his teens and was shunned for almost 20 years). She becomes very tearful and agitated when she tries to explain to us how sad it makes her that we ‐including her grandchildren who are born out of wedlock‐ will likely suffer greatly in Armageddon and not know eternal life. She is the staunchest person of faith I've ever met and is unable to afford herself the luxury of ambiguity or interpretation of scripture.

Yes and in my experience they are too bothered to think about what’s gonna happen in the next life as in when they get into Paradise Earth they will actually forgo relationships with their own children now and they do shun people and it’s really sad because I don’t have a great connection with my mum anymore

Workingclasslass · 15/12/2024 10:16

My mum once told me it was God first husband second and myself third

Bettyboo111 · 15/12/2024 10:35

This is what DP was talking about. Most of the heavy proselytizing and rather bizarre rigid rules are usually the older generations who tend to be quite heavy-handed and literal. Both in the JW's and society in general.
Just a point, the new thought is people can still be saved during and after the Great Tribulation now. Before this wasn't thought to be the case.

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 10:48

I had quizzed my old colleague about 'what if you son chose to marry someone outside JW?' But she was adamant that would never happen. Her children were not permitted on ANY school trips, sleepovers or any other social events hosted by non believers. I'd asked whether she would disown him but she was firm that a relationship outside JW just would not happen - I think that translates to 'we would threaten, so it would not happen'. Abhorrent woman.

The kids weren't allowed to dress up on world book day, but watch kids programmes - especially anything involving magic.

The kids were these timid, pale, malnourished looking things - looked like they'd never been allowed to play out in the sunshine in the rough and tumble with other kids.

This same woman would only employ fellow JW - all who worked part time (she was an 'elder') and spent the rest of their week knocking doors spreading fear.

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 10:49

Workingclasslass · 15/12/2024 10:16

My mum once told me it was God first husband second and myself third

I'm sorry you heard that!

Children should always come first - before the imaginary friend or spouse!

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 10:52

WomanIsTaken · 14/12/2024 21:52

I think you're right, OP -many JWs do find it stressful and a source of considerable anxiety. DPs JW mum has been trying to convert me and draw DP back into the truth for twenty years (he left in his teens and was shunned for almost 20 years). She becomes very tearful and agitated when she tries to explain to us how sad it makes her that we ‐including her grandchildren who are born out of wedlock‐ will likely suffer greatly in Armageddon and not know eternal life. She is the staunchest person of faith I've ever met and is unable to afford herself the luxury of ambiguity or interpretation of scripture.

One of the 'recruits' at my old work place as a big rogue - she had the forbidden tattoos and liked animation.

She said that she was scalded for helping somebody who had left - when they'd dropped their shopping in the rain.

The same woman was also divorced and clearly a lost soul who needed to feel like she belonged somewhere. Very sad because she clearly wanted a normal life

Bettyboo111 · 15/12/2024 10:59

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 10:48

I had quizzed my old colleague about 'what if you son chose to marry someone outside JW?' But she was adamant that would never happen. Her children were not permitted on ANY school trips, sleepovers or any other social events hosted by non believers. I'd asked whether she would disown him but she was firm that a relationship outside JW just would not happen - I think that translates to 'we would threaten, so it would not happen'. Abhorrent woman.

The kids weren't allowed to dress up on world book day, but watch kids programmes - especially anything involving magic.

The kids were these timid, pale, malnourished looking things - looked like they'd never been allowed to play out in the sunshine in the rough and tumble with other kids.

This same woman would only employ fellow JW - all who worked part time (she was an 'elder') and spent the rest of their week knocking doors spreading fear.

Only men can be elders.

Horrace · 15/12/2024 11:16

Ex JW here

Cult cult cult

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 11:24

Only men? Perhaps her husband was - they were 'high' up - I always assumed it was like a religious pyramid selling scheme where the more they recruit, the higher they get towards 'paradise'

Loulo6098 · 15/12/2024 11:36

I was never a JW, but my mum's entire nuclear family was (growing up).

So despite never being a JW, we were shunned because my mum was disfellowshipped some years before she met my dad, and I was born.

That 'religion' is nothing but a business/cult. Which is a shame as some very nice people are trapped within it.

BIossomtoes · 15/12/2024 11:57

tweedledee12 · 15/12/2024 11:24

Only men? Perhaps her husband was - they were 'high' up - I always assumed it was like a religious pyramid selling scheme where the more they recruit, the higher they get towards 'paradise'

Well it’s not so perhaps you should stop pontificating about something you know nothing about. My mum was a JW and I was brought up as one. I don’t recognise the religion that was an integral part of my life in my formative years in many of these awful comments based on pure ignorance.

I’m no longer in the faith because some of their teachings just don’t add up for me but the kindness I was shown when my mum died will be with me always. As will the lack of dogmatism around her funeral. When my brother died, it was my mum’s faith and the support and love of her congregation that got her through.

As for “verminous creatures” - that says far more about you than it does about them @AlwaysGinPlease.

Onand · 15/12/2024 12:01

It’s very sad when you see how many genuinely nice believers turn their backs on disfellowshipped or disassociated family members because they think it is gods will. It has ruined and shattered lots of families around the world.

I was never baptised thankfully and managed to leave without causing too much trouble in my late teens but I know many stories of people who had to leave their entire family and life behind because they were gay or fell in love with a worldy person- shunned for being different or disagreeing with the illogical teachings.

JWs are indoctrinated and conditioned to follow without question every single requirement of the organisation. It baffles me how anyone in 2024 would willingly choose to sign up to such a prohibitive and exclusionary belief system when a simple google search will show you exactly what that organisation stands for.

To any JWs reading this please do not waste your time on this planet on that cult, there’s so much out in the world to experience and be a part of. I feel a pang of sadness when I see them with their book carts in the streets- standing there as life literally passes them by thinking it’s gods will when in actual fact it’s just the will of the organisation to increase numbers and ultimately finances.