Question for Jevovah’s Witnesses or ex Witnesses

[Jozephine]

Not really an AIBU, but not sure where to ask this. I’ve got friends who are JW. The know I don’t believe, and are very closed about their beliefs to me and just shut down conversation if I talk about religion. So my question is around death and funerals.

my friends were recent converts and none of their extended family or friends are JW. There have been a number of funerals in their family recently. As these family members were not JW will the belief be that they will be burnt in the eternal fires at judgement day? I can’t square it with my friend saying that her dad is now ‘at peace’ if she believes that’s going to be his fate? If I believed the things JWs claim then I would be a mess thinking of all my dead loved ones who would have such a fate waiting for them. How does it work?

Because most of them don't want to be one of the 144,000 they want to live on a paradise earth, which can be any number h3nce their term 'the great crowd'.

It's a bit Catch-22: you won't get the golden ticket unless you are really trying to spread the message.

Incorrect, they all have to 'spread the message' but only a few have 'the calling' to be one of the 144,000........allegedly

We have them bother us fairly regularly here, and when you tell they via the Ring that you're not interested, then post hand written letters... we've noticed they usually bring a child almost to dissuade us from telling them to piss off.

I worked with one a few years ago, and thought being god fearing they would play with a straight bat - I've never met such an underhand person in my life who used to tell all sorts of fibs about people to management

Sorry but the Earth would be pretty crowded if every one that has ever lived and died had a chance of coming back. Which was exactly one of my arguments with the door knockers, that may have been the argument that finally got our door blacklisted (yay). Or it may have been the time they had a baby out in a pram while door knocking in freezing rain and wind and I commented that I didn't think God really wanted them to do that

Don't try quoting the bible to the autistic woman who once read the King James Bible from cover to cover just.... because.

I’m more concerned that your friends have recently become JWs without other family or friends being JWs, it makes no logical sense when numbers of JWs are stagnant unless you count third world nations. The many videos and articles by exJWs explaining everything that is wrong with that cult are not fictitious- it is an organisation with an insidious leadership that control millions of naive believers and is rooted in fear and mistrust of non believers.

Your friends will slowly drift away from you because you are worldly and essentially a bad person according to their doctrine. Utter madness that they have willingly signed up to disassociate themselves from their former life to follow a belief system which has been proven time and again to be a sham with a governing body of men who flip and flop on rules and regulations and that’s without even starting on the rabbit hole of systemic covering up of child abuse numerous times around the world.

Oh I absolutely agree with you and yes our friendship has certainly changed. I think there was quite a big recruitment drive during covid and that’s when they were first approached to join.

Apparently, or so I was told, the 144,000 are predetermined. There's nothing you can do to make it up there, you either will be there, or you won't. And you won't know until you get there. You might spend your whole life not only not a JW but not even a believer, and still get there because you were selected at birth.

The recruitment bit is for those who haven't been chosen, which, considering 144,000 is a tiny amount given the number of people in the world. It stands to reason that if you believe you will be infinitely more likely to inherit the earth rather than ascend to heaven, you might want that earth to be populated with like-minded people. So you recruit.

TBF I heard that from a strict Baptist so it might not be exactly the JW take on it, but JWs aren't the only ones with the 144,000 idea.

There's no burning or eternal penance.
Asked DP who's an ex JW.

How come DH is ex JW if you don't mind me asking?
How did his family take it?

Only his parents are JW. They weren't born in. DP was never baptised.
His dad was a strict, military-style parent, which fitted with the times. His mother is gentle.
He thinks some of the problems are down to the strict interpretation of the boomers and their inherent rigidity. The newer generations are demanding more flexibility.
Both he and his dad have high-level academic qualifications. So they know how the world works. They are for all intents and purposes a normal family relatively close.

Gosh this thread is really interesting, thank you.

Can I ask a question too please?
If I live my life as a non JW, so not following any of their rules, I will still have a chance to follow the JW lifestyle and live in paradise if I choose that when the world ends and restarts again?

Sorry, I really don’t think I’ve worded that properly but I hope you understand what I mean.

Apologies if this has already been asked - so if JW heaven already full? 144000 isn't that many people - have they already been selected or does every JW who dies have to wait for the overall end before it's decided who is in heaven/earthly paradise/ dead?

But don't all Christian denominations believe that non-believers will burn in hell. I mean, it's not just JW's is it. So would the OP be equally confused/disillusioned with Roman Catholic friends, or CofE or Methodists - or whatever?

Yes, I understand the doctrines of other religions. And having been raised C of E my family have a belief that if you believe and love God you’ll go to Heaven when you die. It’s the specific beliefs of JW I find it hard to understand.

What do C of E believe happens when you die if you do not believe and love God? Do they believe in hell?

I believe JW's are more like a cult than a religion and I've read some quite disturbing things about them over the years. However, your original post said you found it hard to conceive that they believe non-believing loved ones will burn in hell. Why do you find that specifically unpleasant with JW's and not with other branches of Christianity because, as far as I know, they all think that non-believers will suffer for eternity.

Because what they say is the ones that are alive now that don’t accept the truth when the great end comes they will be destroyed so it won’t be everybody that’s ever lived plus you’ve also got 14400 it’s gonna be in heaven

If you read some of the following posts that have come on before this, you would understand what the reasoning is. There’s only a small minority as in the 144000 going to heaven.
But the great crowd is everybody else which stays on paradise Earth because we were never meant to be in heaven that’s what is in to be resurrected?

If you live your life as a non Jehovah’s Witness it’s not really about the actual title. You don’t have to be official Jehovah’s Witness it’s whether you follow his rules and only God knows what’s in the heart so nobody else can judge but God the factor is the great judgement basically the end of the world will come and if you don’t follow it and you’re an unbeliever according to the Bible you will be destroyed only those who have died prior to this event will get a chance of resurrection.

Already been selected and many of them are already in heaven many of them will probably be of the apostles et cetera but God didn’t want people in heaven. He designed the Earth to be perfect and people to live perfect not have any diseases and not die. He wants the vast majority of people on earth the ones in heaven have a specific role where they assist Jesus in helping with the paradise Earth.

The concept of hell isn’t even in the Bible it talks about Hades which is actually Greek for death dark death meaning nothing hell is a concert that was much later put on by the Roman Catholic Church to punish people so no Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the concept of hell the only thing it talks about that when Armageddon comes, Satan will be locked up for allotted time Maybe like a hell who knows until he’s released again for a short time to test people that died to give them a chance to get to know the truth and whether they remain faithful

Because ultimately what Jehovah’s Witnesses say is that the other churches do not follow the right passages of the Bible there is some element of truth to that for instance let’s take Christmas Christmas did not happen in December. There was nowhere the shepherds would be out right now and even historians and people have realised that it was more likely Jesus would’ve been born roundabout September time the fact is we do Christmas time now because we were once a pagan country and when Constantine I believe the Roman emperor came to Britain didn’t want the local pagan people to revolt they combined the church and the pagan traditions to claim that Christmas was in deed in December, which it wasn’t

Don’t believe anybody goes to hell but what they do believe is that the end of the days will come and if you’re not following their ways you will be destroyed and that’s whether you believe it or not. I’ll leave it up to you.

I want to live on Paradise Earth and cuddle animals, that sounds amazing. But I don’t want to be a JW to do it. I guess no (safe) lion cuddling for me… 😿