To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

[DefendingPan]

This sign was in the disabled toilet in a restaurant (which is also the only baby change in the restaurant).

What’s the point of this sign? What might parents be doing that they will stop after reading this?

Obviously not. But then I don’t perceive parenthood like it either. It was not me who attempted to draw that distinction. I don’t agree that parents rights and the basic needs of babies should not be met because there was some decision making involved in bringing them into the world. But then I don’t judge people who encounter disabilities because of choices they may or may not have made either.

Posters are making it sound very us and them. Like one group using the facilities totally excludes the others and it’s simply not the case. It’s totally unrealistic to expect every venue to have areas sat vacant or have the space required to accommodate separate facilities for all. Imagine if a parent kicked off because a diabetic used the changing room? What would be your view then? Unless it’s purpose built with huge floor space and a huge budget.

Those who feel they encounter discrimination owing to their disabilities on this thread are more likely attracting negativity from their attitudes.

Just when you thought you'd heard everything

fucking hell

It was not me who chose to go down the rabbit hole of choice. So try to use some comprehension skills and not take my comment out of context to suit your narrative.

Those who feel they encounter discrimination owing to their disabilities on this thread are more likely attracting negativity from their attitudes.

Wow! You just solved discrimination! If only us disableds were just nicer and kinder to the people walking all over us, society wouldn’t discriminate against us and we’d all be equal!

Nobel Peace Prize headed your way.

So that's where I'm apparently going wrong...

The people showing their true colours in this thread aren’t those with disabilities!

Apparently your child is not worthy of being changed because it was your choice to be a parent - that is the cause of your child’s soiled bottom and their basic needs for hygiene (to
avoid incredibly uncomfortable conditions like nappy rash) are therefore null and void.

Instead of sharing spaces, because in the real world we accept there are some limitations and sometimes rubbing along together is necessary to keep the peace and co-exist, if you happen upon a dual purpose room fitted with a baby changing table, if it is vacant, you should not change your child for fear a disabled person might drop out the sky and need to use it at that precise moment.

If it is not vacant, you should avoid fighting disabled people and accept that whoever else is in the queue absolutely has more need than you and they lobbed for this and women have never lobbied for anything, not least Mothers.

In the real world, I have never encountered a situation where there’s been a life or death battle between me and the wheelchair (or disabled) user and more likely, have been able to fling the door open and change my child without any sort of mass queue or banging on the door. It’s never as heated as this thread suggests but maybe I hang out in the wrong places.

Yeah, there's another saying.

Hell is other people.

No - quite the opposite - people are showing their attitudes towards parents, babies and children.

Point and case.

Yes, so much hyperbole and twisting of words from some posters.

Ffs. The notice doesn't say parents shouldn't be using the loo with the baby change facilities to change their baby. All it's doing is reminding them to be considerate. Probably most are but clearly in this particular loo some aren't.

Just be a bit thoughtful and considerate of people whose needs are very likely (even if not always) greater than your own.

That's really all there is to it.

It seems to me to be like the public transport argument...
These fkn businesses shouldn't be pitting parents and disabled people against each other!!!
Yes I'd be pissed off by the sign because it's putting responsibility on the parents when the responsibility should fall on the business. Bloody build toilets bigger so you can have a baby change table in the women's and men's toilets!! Or build gender neutral toilets that are completely enclosed and all contain baby change tables and can accommodate buggies.
Don't just whack the baby change in the disabled loo then guilt trip parents about using it to change their babies!!
Honestly it fks me off..
You've got disabled people shouting at parents here and parents shouting at disabled people.. fkn stop. Demand these businesses stop being like this.
You don't have a good business model if you can't actually accommodate your customers properly!! If you have to have a baby change facilities because you know you get lots of families in to your business, bloody build a proper one and stop inconveniencing disabled people. And then trying to blame parents for it!!
You want everyone's money don't you? But you don't want to have to pay to address the situation properly.
And I'm sorry but if you've managed to build a disabled toilet cubicle in the building then you can change your toilets to accommodate baby change too..
I understand there are some buildings that cannot accommodate disabled people or hold baby change.. for example I once visited a cafe in York which was in a medieval tower... of course there was no disabled toilet or a baby change facility.. tbh it was hard even getting up there as an able bodied person.. you've struggled even being elderly or overweight etc.. so obviously no accommodation is going to be made due to the building.
But in any building that has managed to do the work to create multiple toilets and a disabled access toilet, there is absolutely no excuse not to have baby change facilities that do not impact on the disabled toilet. When places chuck the only baby change in the disabled toilet they do it to save money!! The pressure should be put on businesses not to do this. That's why this sign really fucks me off. They are acting like it's some kind of charity! No.. you paid to be in that place.. they are required by law to have disabled toilets if possible in the building... they also want money from the families.. it's on them!! Disgusting to try and make disabled people and parents argue over space.

Thankfully I don’t think everyone is an arsehole. Just the ones who feel entitled to things that aren’t for them and argue that disability discrimination wouldn’t exist if disabled people were just nicer.

Posters are saying that parents shouldn’t be using the loo though.

I didn’t see anyone making that point so perhaps we’ve crossed posts.

Learn to read and inter meaning. People do not have to write every single possible scenario to understand.
My post was perfectly acceptable. People like you just like to piss on people for the fun of it. Grow up and go and enjoy life.

Posters are saying that parents shouldn’t be using the loo though.

Clearly this particular one is intended to be multipurpose so they should - just do it considerately.But it would be better all round if parents didn't have to use the disabled loo, presumably we can all agree that?

Just the ones who feel entitled to things that aren’t for them

Ok so do you mean if a space has a changing mat people shouldn't use it?

I have actually seen massive improvements on public transport regarding this issue in recent years tho.. so I hope we can put the same pressure on businesses regarding their toilets.
As someone with 3 kids and a mum who I am a carer for who is in an electric wheelchair, it used to be shocking on public transport. 9 times out of 10 if I was trying to take my mum anywhere at the same time as my baby we just wouldn't fit together.
Now days you can fit multiple prams and wheelchairs on many new style buses and trains.
Newer trains now days have a section in pretty much every carriage where you can fit prams, leaving the space near the disabled toilets free for wheelchair users.. and now days tou could fit several wheelchairs in that section so disabled friends can travel together.
So things are definitely improving.
The other day I was on a bus with my young baby in her pram and two wheelchair users were also on the bus and we all fit fine without me even having to take the baby out of the pram.

People on this thread are actually arguing that a parent should not use changing facilities that have a changing table for its intended purpose if it’s also a disabled toilet. They are arguing a child’s need to be changed is not a need, one poster said it’s a choice to have children and so other facilities should be sought that are not dual purpose.

Yes, I realise that @WinterBird24 - I don't agree with them on that. However I can understand why people with disabilities may feel that way, and regret the effective demise of radar keys.

Maybe instead of the bickering, or worse, on this thread we should do something a bit more positive eg see if MN would be able to campaign for decent parent and child provision?

I think if you are using it, you should recognise that it is there for you because it has been placed inside a facility that was the sole exclusive use of disabled people. That the use of “accessible” which has arrived to benefit you has come at a cost to those with a disability. And that you should be as quick as you can be, leaving it clean and as it needs to be for disabled people.

Ideally, baby change should be removed from that facility and I support any law which does this.

What I don’t agree with is the people who have decided that the “accessibility” banner is not a watering down of disability protection but an indicator that parents are equal to disabled people and should therefore be able to use their spaces for breastfeeding, changing their kids’ out of swimming costumes, or generally using the facility for prolonged periods of time. And then, when challenged, saying that those challenging them just hate mums and need to be nicer.

For all those posters annoyed by the fact that we disabled people are sometimes afforded the luxury of a toilet which we can actually access, look on the bright side, you and your loved ones are only an illness or accident away from a severe disability of your very own which will allow you too to experience the huge privileges all us disabled people apparently enjoy. You too can look forward to being afforded the most minimal accommodations to public services and buildings, if you're very lucky, while non-disabled people tut at you and resent you for the 'special treatment' you're supposedly getting. In the meantime, cheer up, at least the whole rest of the world is built to accommodate you!

@WinterBird24 this post of yours is just shameful. There are posters like this who are just scraping the bottom of the barrel on here, how depressing.