People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

That’s actually really lovely of you to acknowledge .. we all have our d&%* moments& bad days and it takes courage to take a look at ourselves and want to do better.. the number of times I said something stoooopid and looked back thinking wtf was I thinking … i try to arm myself with humour & forgiveness to myself & others while trying to be/ do better …🌻

@Tandora and @Brightonseafront yes, I am sorry if I’ve mouthed off. Have glanced at a few of my posts and can see that I overreacted/misinterpreted the tone of the PP I was replying to and was really rather rude in both tone/content of a couple of my replies. It’s not really me and I do apologise. I wish I could go back and edit them now, but sometimes it good to have the evidence of your own fuckwittery staring back at you in black and white (and a pink background) to make you cringe at yourself… I shall hold this in the forefront of my mind when my teen has a meltdown over her UCAS application later. Karma, and all that.

but sometimes it good to have the evidence of your own fuckwittery staring back at you in black and white (and a pink background) to make you cringe at yourself… I shall hold this in the forefront of my mind when my teen has a meltdown over her UCAS application later. Karma, and all that

hahahaha that did make me laugh. Sending 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 for your teen’s application- it must be a really stressful time for you both xxx

This drug will save the NHS millions, if not a few billion in the long run.

Obesity causes

heart disease - cost overall of CV disease to NHS £7.4bn
13 different cancer £6.7bn
stroke £3bn
osteoarthritis £10.2bn

apart from the suffering living with the diseases

its not cheating

But UK healthcare is rammed full of doctor- less healthcare provision.

Non medical prescribers have been in place for years here- brought in almost 20 years ago and obviously increasing over that time.

Are you concerned about the lack of doctors in A&E, where you may often be seen by a non doctor, often given the some title of 'advanced/specialist /clinician /practitioner' or some such meaningless NHS word-salad title that stops the patient knowing the training of the individual? Sickened by the preventable death of a child with appendicitis recently in a UK hospital who was never seen by a doctor. Sickened

Are you concerned that in a medical specialty area in the NHS you are now seen by (often ) a nurse specialist who is indeed excellent at that particular condition, but only that condition, and so may easily miss things due to not having trained in medicine?

Are you concerned that patients have had unnecessary procedures and have died due to physician associates rogue-working in UK hospitals, or that this is something the GMC now supports ( taken over listing them since yesterday; note the GMC is not regulating them, just listing them, so they can say they are 'registered with the GMC')

A lot of what goes on in the UK is doctor- free: it certainly isn't medicine these days!

The WLI being prescribed by pharmacists is darn safe compared to what you get in an NHS hospital these days.

Actually, Glp1s we're discovered in 1985, and have been used for diabetes since 2005. That's a good 20 years of medical data to fall back on.

I've yoyo'd for years and currently I am fasting with my cycle and I have found it's one of the easiest to maintain. I realised I knew so little about my body as woman and this has been a real eye opener for me. Everyone is different, one size does not fit all (pardon the pun) We don't know the potential side effects of these drugs yet but equally being overweight has a huge impact on our lifespan anyway. I have a close friend that tried Wegovy, lost some weight but it did not agree (vomiting, reflux) and has now put all and more back on and is currently beating themselves up over it. For me, learning about my hormones, avoiding ultra processed food (which is literally designed in labs to make us crave) and actually really digging in to why I ate the way I did (emotional eater/binger/sabotager) has helped massively.

You could look at statins the same way?

Not everyone has the same time/funds or bandwidth to go down the rabbit hole and am butchering the quote but it goes along the lines of: If you do not have time to be healthy (not just food - mind, body & spirit) you'd better make time for being ill.

In short, you have to make the decision on what's best for you. I have zero judgement on how you get there, getting excess weight off is an important step to reclaiming your health and wellbeing. Another friend had a gastric bypass 10 years ago and has added untold years after being 20st overweight for most of his life. It wouldn't be for me but I'm happy my friend is happy and that they will hopefully be here for many years to come.

lol, it really does not read like zero judgment from you with the we don’t know the side effects faux concern, the negative stories of your mate and the superior I’m so knowledgeable now. All wrapped up with a head tilt and I’m so happy for others. It reads like plenty of judgment.

Once again.
Glp1s we're discovered in 85. They've been prescribed since 05. There is 20+ years of data regarding side effects.

@ThatCoralShark I am sorry it read like that, certainly didn't mean it to but maybe that's some sort of blindness on my part? I'm sure I will get piled on if that's the case and I'll take it. I guess my point was, my whole life I never took the time to find out what was actually going on with me? I just felt shit for being overweight and a failure for never sticking to it. If I had this type of medication available in my younger years, I may have taken it but it's impossible for me to know that. What I do know is how sad I felt for years without understanding my body, how it works and why I never realised how my hormones or emotional health kept me locked in to destructive behaviors that manifested in me being overweight, in pain and on a path to long term health issues.

If I come across as sanctimonious to you and anyone else I am sorry, will read back my post and get some perspective

@LOveLaughToasterBath thank you for the info

I didn’t read your post like that at all don’t worry xx

You were just sharing some personal thoughts and experience. I didn’t find it judgy or sanctimonious at all. We should all be able to contribute our thoughts / reflections/ experiences to the discussion without being pounced on .

Is it? Is it really? Many, many medications are deemed safe to be prescribed by pharmacists, nurses and other clinicians. Others can, rightly, only be prescribed by doctors registered with the GMC. The MHRA regulates this based on scientific evidence. Women are perfectly capable of giving informed consent when they have access to the information, which they mostly do. Doctors are not gods who can magically activate women’s brains so that they can give consent. (I know because I am married to one). Doctors are thin on the ground these days. If a drug is safe, has passed all the stringent medical tests required by law and a pharmacist or other clinician is deemed fit to counsel patients and prescribe, it’s not a particularly good use of resource to insist on a doctor being present. We’ve fought hard for women to get access to the morning after pill direct from pharmacies. That’s been a progressive step and women can now take control of that aspect of contraception. We have excellent regulatory frameworks for medicine in the UK. They may not be perfect but they are good. I don’t have trouble trusting them. It’s also about understanding and weighing up individual risk. Pancreatitis can be fatal. So can obesity and the related co-morbidities. The risks of the latter far outweigh the risk of contracting the former from weight loss medication, as far as I can see.
Basically, we need to be kind to women taking steps towards improving their health in this way. I’m sure it’s daunting enough for them already.

To be honest after all the nonsense on here, about not knowing rhe long term impacts, the side effects etc, I maybe a little sensitive reading it now ..

Many women have long term / permanent contraception, and non hormonal forms of contraceptive or are not having sex, or post menopause or are with men who have permanent contraception or use condoms!

I also am horrified by again the suggestion that women shouldn’t have access to this medication because they may get pregnant, when this issue isn’t applicable to many women who could benefit from it!

As a woman in my 40s I like many of my friends are either sterilised or their husbands have done the decent thing and had a vasectomy!

Contraceptives have moved past the contraceptive pill for a very long time, and isn’t the sole responsibility of a woman to do!

Back in my fertile days I used to need antibiotics from time to time which often stated that they could interfere with the contraceptive pill (which I was taking) and extra precautions would need to be taken for a cycle!

In the US contraceptive care isn’t free unlike in the UK, and there are much bigger issues with women’s access to it! So I think when people talk about accidental pregnancies in the US I don’t feel that it’s likely to be such a big issue in the UK because we have good access to contraception, the use of weight loss injections is flagged to a GP who will highlight appropriate contraceptives available at review of your contraception.

Finally ‘Plan B’ emergency contraception may be less effective for women who are overweight, so arguably taking a weight loss injection to achieve a healthy weight may actually reduce the risk of unplanned pregnancies!

www.nhs.uk/contraception/methods-of-contraception/emergency-contraceptive-pill-morning-after-pill/who-can-take-it/

I also am horrified by again the suggestion that women shouldn’t have access to this medication because they may get pregnant

it’s a classic

@ThatCoralShark I hadn't read the whole thread tbh just chucked my penny in 😬 reading it back, I can see there was some phrasing that sounded a bit head tilt, it's good to have feedback 😂

Precisely.

The poster should save their faux- concern for the public who go to A&E following an accident or in an emergency, and the hospitals have chosen not to employ enough doctors to staff it, so they are fobbed off with non- medical healthcare providers on a scenario where a doctor is most definitely needed.

Safe the worry for THAT scenario, happening at an A&E near you!

I am very confident in the experienced pharmacist who prescribed my WLI, thanks

Yes, find the alarmist ‘some of the side effects can be fatal’ irksome. Aspirin has potentially disabling/fatal side effects if taken by young people (Reye’s syndrome) but we don’t criticise people taking those - the risks are listed in the leaflet so there is informed consent, but it’s not banned, simply ‘not recommended to be given to under 16s unless clinically prescribed’.

Pancreatitis is also often cited and, yes, in one study revealed an increased incidence of cases; however obesity studies indicate that the incidence of pancreatitis increases from the general population in those who are obese and that the incidence of it amongst the obese increases with the level/grade of obesity - ie, there is a possibility that many of these subjects would have developed pancreatitis regardless of taking the medication. However, it needed to be listed as a ‘very rare’ side effect, which it is, when associated with pre-existing conditions, such as gallstones. If you have a history of these you are NOT allowed to be prescribed it. The recent case of the nurse who died from taking these drugs lists the fact that she had gallstones and, clearly, chose not to disclose this to her prescriber.

What I am trying to explain, and hopefully not in the pompous tone I may have used previously, is that many people using these meds have done the research, read the leaflets, and made an informed decision over the risks which are truly minuscule vis a vis the ongoing impacts of obesity, depression, heart disease.

Eg,the incidence of pancreatitis in the obese is approx 45 cases per 100,000; obesity increases this risk by up to 43%. Ie to 57/100k. My risk as a woman of death from coronary heart disease is 5,500/100,000. It is double if you have any of the other obesity related risk factors. So, weighing this up, taking the medication is the safest option to ensure I am protected from potentially life threatening health issues.

Why is the role of anything that women of any age may want to do distilled down to the ‘you might get pregnant’ argument as if we still live in Tudor England and our sole job is to birth heirs!

I know this is Mumsnet, but clearly pregnancy can be effectively prevented if you take medications that are contrary to the contraceptive pill including those used to treat epilepsy!

I read your post and nowhere did you come across as judgemental and I'm taking saxenda, you're just giving your insight, what is it about these posts that's making people so angry, I never wanted to take these injections and unlike the majority here, I am nervous about what I'm putting into my body and the long term effects, who wouldn't be, but I also like that I've lost weight so will continue until the weight is gone and hopefully never have to use them again

I admit I thought it was cheating until I read this thread.

Reflecting I think I didn't understand and was just jealous. I eat little, deny myself seconds of cake and put in a lot of mental effort to stay slim and yet this is marketed as an easy way to get what I have worked so hard for.

Sad to hear some of these stories and so many others with bad relationships with food, but happy to have been re-educated.
Good luck to you all.

It does boil down to eat less and move more

.

🤣 @HansHolbein

was deciding whether to reply to that one too, but have tried to turn over a new leaf and stop being a shrew today…