People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

Indeed. Most of us have done all the above for decades before the advent of these medications. I trained as a fitness instructor structor in my 20s so am fully aware of the ‘science’ except sports science is based on general trends and often self selecting subjects to draw up generalisations. Medical and clinical science recognise that the ‘individual’ often does not respond in line with studies because they have complex biological and medical differences, ones that change over a lifetime. So I was perfectly able to manage my weight by working out 90mins a day 6 days a week, eating 1500 calories (yes, it took that much effort to maintain my weight) because I was young, single, no kids and had both the time and money for gym membership.

Once I had kids, less money and time, less energy after years of interrupted sleep, higher stress levels from ferrying SEN kids to schools in separate counties I struggled. Food became the enemy and I could only lose weight for brief periods using VLCDs only for it to creep back on and a cycle began. Then as I went into menopause we had lockdown. Two bereavement's, 3 bouts of severe covid, a suicidal teenager later and I was 6stone overweight. I walk the dogs for 90mins most days, lived on less than 1500 cals but nothing I did addressed the weight. Not keto, not fasting, nothing. So I tried ozempic, then wegovy and now mounjaro.

But 18m later I finally have a normal BMI, bloody brilliant health indices (low cholesterol, reduced liver fat, reduced thyroid meds, no need for HRT, fewer migraines etc). Stabbing myself with a needle means I am more active, look ten years younger, no longer suffering from post-menopausal depression, and will likely live 10-20 years longer at less expense to the NHS as I only take thyroid meds now.

We have underlying health and life issues that make weight maintenance challenging - we are not stupid, lazy or gluttonous.

Brilliant!

I listened to a few podcasts recently, and these specialists in weight loss were extremely optimistic about semiglutides and the widespread benefits they could have. Scientists are by nature cautious, so hearing them heap praise on these drugs was great.

Of course semiglutides are still relatively new, at least in the context in which they are not being used, so we'll have to wait and see how things develop over the next several years. But it would seem that there is every reason to believe that their benefits could be immense.

Well, I'm in my 50s and certainly don't suffer from unbearable food noise, or see much evidence of this around me. It just seems like a pretty bold claim.

Actually we all know that slim people suffer and anguish every waking moment of every day to be thin. You all keep telling us this.

Whilst also telling us that we just need to eat less and exercise more and we, too, can be gorgeous like you.

I’m also someone who has never experienced any kind of “food noise”. I don’t actually think about food that much. I just eat what I want/ when I want. I’ve always been slim and have been the same weight since I was 18. It’s not true that it’s something every woman struggles with.

I'm lucky I have a great endocrinologist who prescribed off label. I (long story but..) have bilateral adrenal tumours, and there is increasing evidence that GLP1 jabs can be amazing for the rollercoaster they cause, removing the need for surgery or life long nastier drugs.

I’m not bitter about others losing weight this way.
What I’m genuinely interested in is how many people are helped to lose weight through the injections and also helped to change lifestyle, eg exercise more as they feel they can, change diet etc, so that they can maintain the positive weight loss. My worry is having spoken to (obviously a very small group) of users that they don’t seem to have taken onboard wider change, to help them be healthy. Plenty of skinny people are still very unhealthy, drinks lots of alcohol, eat rubbish and have poor muscle tone. Skinny doesn’t equal healthy.

So as I said in a previous post there has been a massive increase in the amount of people overweight/obese in the last 60 years.
So if people are like you eating reasonable amounts of unprocessed food what is causing this?
Chemicals in water/food/ atmosphere, aren’t people worried?

Each to their own. I've lost my weight on the injections and maintaining the loss with no issues. I just wouldn't dream of medicating myself for life on something that I no longer need. I needed the help to lose weight, I dont need the help to now recognise the shite situation I'll be in again if I let my guard down. But if someone needs it for life I suppose that's up to them. I've not heard of anyone staying on it once they've lost their weight though.

Scarcity drives perceived value.

Yes, this. Being thin has value and status in our society. If you’ve been working hard to achieve or maintain this status I can fully understand being annoyed when something like weight loss injections become widespread.

It also makes me laugh remembering the numerous threads on here before the injections became available where so many posters were adamant they couldn’t lose weight despite how hard they were dieting and that it was all much more complicated that being about calories in v calories out. All of a sudden these very same people are losing weight by consuming less calories than they expend, while on the injections.

Cheating what exactly? Why should people struggle to lose weight when they hve an easier option. Work smart not hard

People who think it’s cheating are just ignorant arseholes.

it’s that simple.

A complete change of lifestyle. Less manual work, more wealth, abundance of food, cheaper food.

So, scenario 1 - 1200 calls + exercise = no weight loss;
Scenario 2 - 1200 calls + exercise +WLI = weight loss.

Anyone with a science bent would infer that:
a) WLI are doing something significant to metabolism/hormone functions to bring about weight loss;
b) that, given the no-WLI scenario should - according to accepted wisdom - have resulted in weight loss, that there is an unidentified biological or metabolic dysfunction underlying some peoples inability to lose weight;
c) that the received wisdom of ‘calories in < calories expended = weight loss’ is at best an incomplete paradigm, and worst completely wrong.

I lost over 5 stone eating healthily years ago, mum to 2 young DC, busy with 3 PT jobs, running a home, hardly ever sitting still...

Fast forward..aged...10 years.

Weight all back on, partly but not restricted to ill health, I say partly because although the health problems aren't life threatening they do impact on my daily life as the one thing I loved to do was getting out for a walk.
Now while I know you can't out run a bad diet walking did wonders for my mind, being out in the fresh air mooching, no where in particular but walking non the less, it made me feel good and in turn make better food choices.

Now...aged some more...20 years on... meno has joined me and despite HRT spends its days trying to drag me down.

Various operations have pretty much stopped me in my tracks, weight still clinging on plus some..

I've many a time set out to do as I did 20 years ago eating wise to get the weight off, but having stuck to eating healthily then weighing in weekly to see that the scales aren't moving is, for me demoralising, and as all things visual is everything to me the skirt/trouser non scale victories don't come quick enough and I'm back making 80% bad food choices.

I'm not using any injections, not sure I could afford them and would never buy OTC without my Dr giving advice, but I'd consider using them along side making those good food choices as I'm a believer in that in most cases if no medical reasons, it's what you eat that will determine how your weight fluctuates no amount of exercise will shift weight, so making healthier food choices and changing my mindset along with using the injections would hopefully get the scales moving, bypassing that disappointing feeling of getting on the scales and seeing the numbers staying the same in those initial weeks of trying.

I know that once those numbers start to drop consistently I'd be on it 100% with food choices but that's where the change in mindset would work along side the jabs, then hopefully everything would fall into place and the jabs could be stopped.

Just my opinion though..

This is why I loathe the 'unpopular opinions' threads. This is what they do. Fill up with insidious 'musings' by inadequate women (it is always women) who don't care that their narrow and spiteful views actually hurt people.

This 'Weight loss injections are cheating' and 'Go fund me' were both on there. Ugh.

Didn't watch it then?

I’m intrigued as to how much less the person who wrote the quoted bit in this post would like me to eat?

I’m considerably under 5ft tall, a wheelchair user, post menopausal and I have an exceptionally low metabolic rate. Even eating what most people on here yell is “too little to live on” I put on weight. I’m eating a fraction of what is considered “normal”, I’m not eating junk food or even large quantities of healthy food.

While I’m sure a lot of people do have psychological problems around food, for huge numbers of us it’s just absolute constant, gnawing hunger, plain and simple. It’s got nothing to do with willpower, junk food or childhood trauma, it’s just not possible to live anything like a normal life when you are constantly so hungry you can’t think about anything else.

I don’t qualify for the injections and can’t afford them, but they sound an absolute godsend for those who can get them.

d. Without the weight loss jab the person is eating more calories than 1200 (possibly without realising) over an extended and consistent period of time. Keeping to 1200 cals every day every week and month is extremely challenging for the majority

There really isn’t any great mystery, although lots of people tie themselves up in knots trying to justify.

Will the trainer help if your are physically disabled and can't do a lot of different exercises

I’m likely insulin resistant, so my doctor has recommend I stay on a low dose for life. That ok with you?

I think it just comes down to most of social media being about telling people off. And weight loss injectables are the latest thing to drive this.

Lots of happiness, health, joy and success to those on injectables. They seem to be brilliant!

I do think it's a really interesting discussion.

I was a naturally slim person. Size 10/12 (at 5'7 and pear shaped it was a good size for me). I didn't really think about what I ate and just ate until I was satisfying and ate what I wanted.

I enjoyed food, ate a varied diet but didn't avoid any particular food groups, didn't over eat, had no compulsion to eat my plate, stopped eating things if I wasn't enjoying them and ate slowly. I maintained my weight pretty effortlessly for about 12 years.

Over the course of a few months it all changed. I got a serious carb craving. I couldn't stop thinking about food, found it took much more food for me to be full. And I gained weight. Lots of weight. I could lose it again if I cut back, but I was miserable the whole time and constantly hungry. I tried multiple diets in an effort to lose weight but not be miserable and hungry. I'd lose weight, fall of the wagon (because constant weighing, measuring or leaving out entire food groups is exhausting). But it over and over again I told myself that I just needed more will power.

No. What I needed was drugs. Hormone replicating drugs. Pretty much the second I injected ozempic (well, 48hours after), I felt "normal" again. And it was heaven. The instant "off" of food noise and appetite made me realise quite how different I felt when I'd started gaining weight. The speed of my weight gain wasn't because of poor food choices, lack of exercise, lack of knowledge but about a hormonal imbalance causing an almost insatiable appetite. It's quite bonkers!

I do understand that.

But from the arguments on this post 'it just curbs appetite, doesn't melt fat, you still have to make the right choices'.

So which is it? Because either it is just about eating less and that's what this drug does. Or it also gives you a helping hand in other ways in which case the cheating arguments stand up a bit more.

I personally think it's a bit of both. It does make it easier to lose weight so that could be seen as a cheat. But if I needed to lose weight I'd absolutely be taking it so I also think it's an entirely sensible decision that will improve people's lives.

But I am lucky that I don't really diet. I don't eat large portions and I like exercise but in a way my body cheats too because I eat more than some people who gain weight more easily. So really metabolic effects are important too and this is making a contribution but those things aren't necessarily equal in everyone in the first place (and dieting messes them up). So we all have some places in the advantage/disadvantage scale.

Why We Eat Too Much by Andrew Jenkinson has some really interesting stuff about metabology and the 'calories in, calories out' mantra, and the role of 'negative feedback' in explaining why it's too simplistic. It's very interesting. There are limited studies obviously as an ethical thing but the Vermont Prison experiment and one done with conscientious objectors show quite clearly how the body adjusts its metabolic rate to protect itself.