AIBU or does anyone else thinks that most (not all) men are inherently lazy?

[SunnyPinkMouse]

as I get older I am becoming more intolerable to men. I think they’re lazy. I think they are mummy’s boys. They get out of helping. They get out of doing a lot of things. They just do what they want to do. Why? Is it because their mums let them get away with this growing up and so they continue this way and then expect their wives to replace their mum?

Men seem to be selectively lazy .

They seem reluctant to to anything that isn't directly beneficial to them.

Not all lazy - but most are inherently very selfish.

I married a gem. He makes me look lazy. He is out now in the cold mending our fence after last night. He has put the shopping away and the washing on. He is retired and does nearly everything around the house.
He has painted hall, stairs and landing plus living room this past week.
I work fulltime and have a meal ready for when I come in.

@EdithBond

straight men have been socially conditioned (as we all have) to sexism, leaving women to be their (unpaid and often unappreciated) domestic servants. In my experience, this can be particularly true of men who had mothers who didn’t work outside the home at all, or much, in their formative years. So, their reference point for women in relationships can be they do everything, or most things, at home and/or with childcare.

Exactly.

And the thing is these mothers' financial wellbeing (via their marriages) dependent to a large extent on their capacity to do housework and other things which kept things ticking over nicely and kept the husbands happy. The mothers had a huge incentive to not rock the boat so the sons by and large have been trained to think that a "good" mother is one who does all the work he doesn't want to do. This is subsiding but very slowly.

I agree with this.

For some reason if I complain about something not being done and my partner not doing his fair share, he'll say "you never told me to do that" as if it was my responsibility to tell him what needed doing.

I've told him multiple times I am not his project manager. Particularly when it comes to things like remembering the right things to put in kids bags or where they need to go when.

I don't know why this is considered so hard or somehow always forgotten and it's just expected that it will get done because I'll remember to do it, or I'll remember to tell him to do it.

He has apologised a few times now when I've pointed out he should remember and know what needs doing. But I don't see a shift in actions yet.

I’m interested in what these men have in common. What is it that has led these rare men, who do pull their weight, to go against the general trend? Do you have any advice for the rest of us?

I've just never seen it as my responsibility so, if I met man who appeared to be the sort of man who expected a woman to do everything (usually evident in other attitudes), I didn't see him again.

When a man has gone to do something (because, when men live alone, they are capable of doing all of these things). I have never once told him to sit down and offered to do it for him.

I read a thread on here earlier this year when a significant women who complained of their husbands being lazy, also admitted that, in the early days, they had insisted on doing everything to showcase how much she cared and her domestic skills etc. I've also never assumed a man would change or that I could change him and a lot of women on that thread said that they did just assume it would change once they had a baby because he would want to automatically step up.

Basically, the only thing the men I've met/dated etc have in common was that they weren't lazy. I didn't tolerate it for a second.

I've also never looked to date men who 'treat me like a princess', were 'gentlemanly/chivalrous' or insisted on paying for every date (refusing offers from le to do so) because I think those attitudes often go hand in hand.

@Thepeopleversuswork and @peppermintteacup Yep, it’s what finished things with my ex. Spoke to him about it so many times. How having a demanding (and better paid) job, three young, boisterous and messy DC, plus having to do all the endless organising, cleaning, gardening etc was exhausting me. I said to him many times, I didn’t want to be his manager at home. I didn’t want him to ‘help’ me. I wanted him to take some frigging responsibility. He didn’t. So I eventually left.

Very telling his mother did everything at home even though she worked. His father joked he didn’t know how to use a washing machine (he was an engineer). I don’t think he’d ever bought clothes for himself. Not even a pair of pants. He got other people to buy her perfume for her birthday. She even applied for a job for him when he was made redundant. When we were staying, she wouldn’t let me in the kitchen to help with food or wash up.

I wasn’t used to that. My dad had a very responsible job while my mum did the odd part-time job here and there. But every weekend, my dad went shopping, made food, built things (like our 8-track stereo and wooden play house), did DIY, took us daughters out for walks and worked on our allotment. My grandfathers were both the same.

My ex and I clearly had different reference points.

I also grew up with a mum who did everything because she didn't work. It was common when I grew up in the 70s/80s and my dad didn't do anything around the house. But that's not the world I live in as an adult. And I knew it wasn't the life I wanted for myself.

The majority aren't lazy imo but no one I know would tolerate that type of lazy selfish man.

How many of the more than a billion men on earth do you know personally to make such a sweeping statement? Sounds like you’re just referring to your own family and possibly friends. My experience is a lot different.

I had a lot of daughters and then a son and I was absolutely determined I was not gonna create the little Prince and I haven’t.
The girls and I see it as our duty to train him to be a good husband so that he gets the pick of all the best looking women who will be falling over themselves to live with such a well trained man
That’s the theory anyway

No. I'm working class and most of the men I know are grafters. My husband is a grafter in the sense that he works long hours to bring in a decent wage, and he does a generous share of labour in the home (including all the cooking and grocery shopping).

I think having hard working fathers helps more than anything. Neither dh nor my db could be described as lazy, and both fil and df had strong work ethic, and more respect than to sit around while others were working.

I also think having a great df as a role model set me up with very high standards. My maternal gf was fabulous too, and I think that helped her choices.

Train him like a puppy? So daughters are allowed to just grow up but men have to be trained?

So I have boy girl twins and am raising them as a single mum. Have to say it's been an incredibly interesting study (if you can call parenting that!) in the whole nature vs nurture debate, DNA and men vs women. No father figure in the home since they were young babies so any typical "male" traits my son has picked up can't have come from him. I am raising them exactly the same and don't treat them differently. They are pre school age by the way ....his sister doesn't do any of these things

• he takes his socks off and leaves them everywhere 😂
• will get his twin sister to run around after him
• will laze on the sofa whilst everyone tidies up around him
• would spend all evening relaxing in the bath if he could
• has to be forced to tidy up / take his plate to the sink / pick up after himself / shut the fridge door
• will take the easiest option which expends the least energy - sometimes won't eat dinner unless I feed it to him!
• is most definitely a mummy's boy

I don't think it's all about men vs women as my dad isn't like that at all. Therefore it must be whose DNA he has inherited and unfortunately his dad did all of the above 😂

I think it depends on their upbringing to be honest. The farming males I know aren't lazy.

But having said that DSS is quite capable of lying on the sofa while everyone else does stuff. He's happy to help if asked but would rather no one asked.

I’m far lazier than my DH. I know less lazy men than not.

Why are you blaming their mothers and not their fathers?

I’m far lazier than my husband . It’s he that does most of the repairs on the house, not just our house but many family members. He does stuff that I would be incapable of doing . for example going up in the roof and replacing missing tiles etc. He also is a great cook. I’m happy to do things for him that I’m better at. If that means sewing a button on his coat because shock horror his hands are too big to fiddle with a needle then so what.

Lazy and selfish seem to have been conflated here which is definitely impacting on responses.

I fully agree. I had a hard working father who did more than a fair share around the house, was heavily involved in our childhood etc. My OH had a similar father, and he's also been a remarkable partner, husband and father, never shying away from household chores nor sharing the "burdens" of looking after our son.

It was his work ethic that was attractive to me when we first met, as we met doing voluntary work, and not only was he doing that, he was also working full time, and studying at the same time in evenings/weekends for professional qualifications, and also had a time consuming and responsible "hobby" where he was secretary and treasurer of another local voluntary group, Oh, and he also helped in his parent's business too! He was literally "busy" 7 days a week with something, and often evenings too! He was like a Duracell bunny, never stopped. The concept of a lazy lie in on Saturday or Sunday just never crossed his mind. One part of me was irritated that we had to "schedule" time together just for us, but at the same time, I was impressed at his work ethic. I must say that in our "scheduled" together time, he was 100% mine, he never got side tracked doing other things, never "forgot" to turn up or late, etc, and was 100% reliable, so that outweighed the relatively little time we spent together. As the years passed, he cut down his "other" activities and we spent more and more time together, even more so when we married and bought a house and then had our son - all his voluntary work etc was cut right back and of course, by then he'd qualified so had finished studying in evenings and weekends too. A long journey, but well worth the wait!

I think it is a combination of things. Many men wait to be asked rather than look around to see what needs doing. Eg. If I was washing up ex would stand there chatting and watching unless I specifically asked him to do something, then he would say "ok, let me do that" and take over the (half-completed) task of washing up rather than looking around the room and seeing what else needed to be done. If most people are asked for help, they would help, but a lot of men would a)see this as "helping their partner" rather than just doing their bit and b) would just do what they are asked and wouldn't take the initiative to see what else needed doing. This summarises it well:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18ZeorhEmK/

In general men and women have different standards and priorities. Traditional "women's work" like cleaning and cooking is not seen as a priority to men. A woman sees a room as 10% dirty so it needs a thorough clean. A man sees the same room as 90% clean so it's fine. A woman thinks of a meal plan that tastes nice and is healthy. A man sees eating as a functional thing needed for staying alive, so a takeaway is fine.

Most of the perception that men are lazy and the conflict this causes arise from this simple fact: men are not the same as women. Their brains are wired differently. For the overwhelming majority of human history there has been a clear delineation between "men's work" and "women's work" and it's not the work of a generation to overturn thousands of years of evolution.

You might be able to condition a man into doing the cleaning to your standard, but you won't be able to convince him that it genuinely needs doing. That will take a few hundred years and many generations.

Their brains are wired differently. For the overwhelming majority of human history there has been a clear delineation between "men's work" and "women's work" and it's not the work of a generation to overturn thousands of years of evolution.

No, just no.
This is not true.

It’s nice that there are so many women on here that have male family members that sit outside of the statistical norm and do their share. It really shows that if we change our expectations of men, the balance of labour can actually change! I’m interested in what these men have in common. What is it that has led these rare men, who do pull their weight, to go against the general trend? Do you have any advice for the rest of us?

I'm much lazier than DP, especially when it comes to domestic stuff. He's extremely house-proud and a top-notch cook whereas, while I do pull my weight, I aim to think about domestic chores as little as possible. I do the bare minimum necessary to keep the house ticking over hygienically, I do the the chores divvied up to me and outside of that I do not think about them.

My secret was unwitting at the time and that was being the sort of chaotic party girl in my 20s who no man could have possibly envisaged as a domestic goddess (or even domestically competent). Some of my friends from those days are amazed I can boil an egg 15 years on. There was never the slightest expectation from any man I went out with that I would do the traditional feminine domestic stuff. I'm much improved since those days but DP throughout our relationship has treated my slatternliness as a running joke (affectionately) (I think!).