To think friends STBEXH is delusional??

[Paddymcpaddy]

Friend and her DH of 20 odd years are separating - they have 2 school aged kids.

When they met they earned similar amounts but friend went PT when kids were born, earned less for 10 years but now works FT. The DH did little childcare, has a great career earns 3/4x more than she does.

The DH wants to sell the family home and spilt the equity - about £400k each- and then pay some maintenance towards the kids. But they’ll be 50/50 custody he reckons so not much.
HOWEVER his pension pot is close to £1m, friends is £300k as she earned less, went on maternity etc.

He says - we’ll be leaving the pensions out of any financial settlement. The kids will get his if he dies. She’s now worried how she’ll get a new house and mortgage on her salary even with that £400k deposit as they live in London.

I have told her she is MAD if she agrees his pensions doesn’t come into it! They’ve split all the bills 50/50 all these years, which left her without much extra and he put loads of his spare cash into pension and savings.

Should it not be assets + pension + savings added together then divided by 2??? Everything they have was earned when they were together .

Well they won't have to hate each other will they, if he's a decent bloke and recognises that a fair split of assets is not necessarily an equal one? Splitting up doesn't need to be combative and acrimonious if you follow the principles of equity and need.

My exdh is still living in our house. He had his pension in a SIPP and has emptied it so he has no pension pot. He was earning over £100k a year and decided to become unemployed and gambled his/our savings. He considers the house which is in joint names his but refuses to maintain it - broken boiler, leaking roof etc. I have recently come into an inheritance and hope to buy him out. I'm not entirely sure he won't burn the house down rather than let me have it. It is very close to my parents' house. I'm not saying anything until after Christmas.

I actually laughed out loud at this.

a) There is absolutely no guarantee that by laying down and allowing him to wipe his feet on her, she's going to buy herself an amicable co-parenting relationship (at £350k for the privilege!) - if anything it sets a precedent for him to continue to treat her like dirt as he knows she won't stand up for her most basic rights; and
b) she should ask herself if he is he similarly worried that his insisting on this might ruin their future relationship? I didn't fucking think so. Suggest she opens with that in therapy!

Somebody has done a number on that poor woman. Please lend her some Mumsnet gumption until she rediscovers her own!

This. It is all up for negotiation. I would ask for all equity in the house and no rights to his pension. Then she can stay put, afford to work pt if she wants too and later on, cash in the house to buy a smaller one to top up her pension.
the value of his pension is 1million, if OP asks for her share she may get 40% which is the 400k she needs to pay him out. So therefore they are quits, he needs to choose does he want 400k now or 400K in pension …though OP can force the issue via solicitor if she wants too.

the UK divorce system is sooo against women. In Europe when a couple split they lower earner who has sacrificed their career fit the family gets half of everything, kid maintenance pls a monthly maintenance to cover for the missed earning the continue in the future. The less earned stays in the family home that is paid by both till the kids become adults. I am shocked at the system in the UK. A woman who decides to stay at home gets half of all assets, no kid maintenance if they split their time 50-50 and nothing else, meaning if the assets are not much she needs to go back to work while she has lost the best years of her earning power, especially if she is over 45yo. Many women become poor after a divorce. The kids also are forced not to live in their family house as the house needs to be sold to ensure the 50/50 split if no one can buy the other and live in 2 houses one week at the time, which is dreadful for their stability and mental health. This system does not protect the kids or the lower earners, it is just a win win for the higher earner which often is the husband

If it was the other way round, ie she earned more and had a massive pension, I bet he would want 50/50 on everything. She is entitled to an equal share of all marital assets and that includes pensions. She is not required to sell/leave the home until the children have finished full time education, especially if she is the primary care giver. Tell your friend to stop negotiating and to instruct a solicitor. A financial order is needed and she needs to hold fast on this one. He can be pissed all he likes but this is the reality of marriage. You share a life, you share the assets.

she’s worried that it’ll ruin their future relationship

Inform her that they're getting divorced?

She is entitled to more and she needs more. So she needs to take more.

Agree.

OP - also consider the fact that her STBXH doesn't seem to be overly concerned about their future relationship, as he's prepared to shaft her financially.

WEll too fucking bad, as they say.

She enabled his career, and his pension pot, by doing the heavy lifting with childcare and home, etc, during crucial career year building.

She doesn't need a future relationship with an arsehole.

Yes.

He's actively planning to shaft her like this, and she thinks she needs to let him or else he'll be a complete arse at co-parenting?

Anyone who tries to shaft their partner like that is ALREADY clearly an arse. She is already co-parenting with an arse. She might as well live in a decent house while she does it.

Not read the full thread but absolutely needs to speak to a good family lawyer with those figures. I'm part way through a divorce and we're looking at offsetting his pension for more equity in the house for me. I earn more now but he has a public sector pension with extra contributions and I had minimal contributions whilst covering the nursery fees for 4 years.

Avoiding solicitors is all well and good if both parties are being open and fair. But he’s not already. So I’d get a solicitor. As for not wanting to include his pension because she doesn’t want to jepordise future relations, well it’s going to be a relation that’s all his way..

Someone's probably already said this, but she needs to act fast to prevent him drawing down on the pension and stashing the money.

This is her way in, she needs to talk to her husband and say that there is a very small chance she will be able to find a property in their current area so will have to move further out. If he doesn't want the kids moving further out he will have to help her

When my oarents split we were both adults. My day bought her out of the house as he want to stay there. She would of got some of his pension but there was some sort of clause that came into play as she got married.

If he remarries and has more children, where will your friend and her kids be then? If someone promises they’ll give you all their money in 50 years, you should not believe them. That’s the entire point of Great Expectations.

Friend divorced recently, everything is put down as the marital pot, pensions, investments, watches, even her exh business was valued and put down as an asset

Friends Ex said she would not be getting a single penny from him if they divorced

The judge awarded her 60% So she took the house (mortgage free) and some cash and he took his pension and business

He actually wanted EOW visitation for dc but as the youngest was university age the judge said absolutely not

Your friend needs to get a solicitor and stop thinking she isn’t entitled to anything. She is entitled to a share of everything

She doesn’t have to negotiate anything
Get a solicitor and let a judge decide what she is entitled to

Then he needs to look at divorce law

If the house has £800,000 equity and his pension is £1 million and hers £300,000

That is £2.1million. So on a 50/50 split that is £1,050,000 each. So he can keep his pension and if friend gives him £50,000 from her pension or takes a mortgage or loan out for £50,000 to buy him out of the house then all is fair.

I would assume that there are other assets that are also up for splitting.

Instead of negotiating with him she needs to get evidence of everything in his name and see a solicitor

It is the only way she is going to get a fair settlement

Needs to see a solicitor. Amongst divorcing friends all assets are included including pension, so what tends to happen is that (for example) if the house is worth 1m and his pension is worth 1m, it’s been usual for the wife to get the house and agree not to claim on the pension - ie she takes her share of the assets via a larger portion of the value of the house meaning she can be mortgage free - and the’ve had a clean break arrangement. Means the exH has pretty much had to start anew, but he’s working and that’s the decision he’s made …

Just a small thing, but it doesn’t say they’re married…so if they are not, pensions won’t come into it. But yes, if they are, pensions are highly relevant! She does need some legal advice, but if she wants to keep it amicable, she should also suggest a good family mediator, who can help facilitate good discussions and hopefully agreement about the division of all the finances, including pensions.

A pension pit isn’t like an inheritance that can be given away. My pension would go to my kid until they turned 18. It’s kind of use it or lose it. My pension is not a pot of money.

you are entitled to it as you sacrificed your own pension. It’s tough on him.

I would stop paying 50/50 and letting him add to his savings continu

Absolutely it is

All assets including his and her pension and his other savings and shares etc.

It may well be that it isn't dealt with by pension transfer but allowing her a larger share of equity/cash.

She needs to lawyer up. He is trying to shaft her so why is she even worried about their future relationship she should worry about the here and now and her and her kids' future.

If he doesn't want the kids to move too far away then he needs to cough up and give them the means to stay.

Their relationship must have already gone south if they're divorcing - she needs to stop worrying about any future relationship with him and secure her own future. They'll probably end up falling out over something shite and minor anyway, so she may as well have a chunk of his pension when it happens

My parents divorced amicably when I was a teenager and split my dad's pension up until their divorce as she was home with us and my dad isn't a terrible person. She kept the house and took over the mortgage as my brother and I lived there. He actually helped out for a while too as she was way behind on her earning potential after being home with us and working part time for so long.

They are great friends now and we even go on holidays together. So it's possible to find a way through if everyone just sits down and thinks about the whole picture.

I really see the benefits now that my parents are older - my father has more money in general as he kept working after they split and was more senior, but my mum had enough to buy her place and be safe as she ages. The long term implications are super important to think through too.