To think friends STBEXH is delusional??

[Paddymcpaddy]

Friend and her DH of 20 odd years are separating - they have 2 school aged kids.

When they met they earned similar amounts but friend went PT when kids were born, earned less for 10 years but now works FT. The DH did little childcare, has a great career earns 3/4x more than she does.

The DH wants to sell the family home and spilt the equity - about £400k each- and then pay some maintenance towards the kids. But they’ll be 50/50 custody he reckons so not much.
HOWEVER his pension pot is close to £1m, friends is £300k as she earned less, went on maternity etc.

He says - we’ll be leaving the pensions out of any financial settlement. The kids will get his if he dies. She’s now worried how she’ll get a new house and mortgage on her salary even with that £400k deposit as they live in London.

I have told her she is MAD if she agrees his pensions doesn’t come into it! They’ve split all the bills 50/50 all these years, which left her without much extra and he put loads of his spare cash into pension and savings.

Should it not be assets + pension + savings added together then divided by 2??? Everything they have was earned when they were together .

I've divorced after 35 years, not such large figures involved but this was what I did - took slightly more equity out of the house so that Ex-H could keep his entire pension. As he was a civil servant (already retired) valuing his pension would be a lengthy process, and it suited me as I wanted more equity straight away. My solicitor said I could still apply for a proportion of his pension even with the larger equity, but it would have been a long and possibly costly process so we decided to stick to our original plan. So with such a large pension, OP's friend might even be entitled to the keep the house instead of a share of pension, if that suited her. With younger children (mine grown up) and this sort of money involved, she'll have to go through a solicitor. Bottom line, she could be well and truly fucked over by her ex. My ex was a nuisance and could be nasty, but overall we have managed to sort it out.

On the pinned guides on MN I think its either relationships or divorce threads, or both, they refer to Resolution - its an organisation that solicitors register with and agree to abide by the code of being non-adversarial. Both Ex-H and I got our individual solicitors through Resolution recommendations so I'd always say go on their website first. https://resolution.org.uk

It is his choice if he wants to be nasty over her getting a fair share of assets, including pensions.

She has already allowed herself to be screwed by him financially for 20 years, so she needs to wake up.

A fair split benefits her children.

Tell her not to be the stupid woman who tries to appease a financially abusive prick by giving him what he wants.

Her children will prefer his comfortable house and she will notice their preference.

She needs every single penny she can get.

If HE chooses to be a prick about that and sour relations, thats on him.

He has financially abused her for years.

Sorry just wanted to add that my solicitor told me if the judge suspects that the planned settlement is unfair to either party, they can throw it out and send the couple back to mediation etc so I think your friend is on firm grounds.

It's not up to him.

I live out in Essex a d people commute 5 days a week so can't see that being an issue. Many kids use transport in London to get to school as well

LMAO that he want to leave the pensions out of it. Of course he does.

She'd be nuts to agree to that. He's not being fair.

Haven’t RTFT but I negotiated a bigger % of house equity in exchange for not touching XH pension.

So I got 75% and him 25%. This reflected the higher pension pot he had as a result of me working PT for 13 years to facilitate his career and provide childcare.

It sounds like a similar deal might benefit your friend.

She needs to get advice from a solicitor. It's all very well not wanting to involve them but ultimately it will cost her hugely when it's clear that she has enabled him to build up the pension level that he has. It would be smaller if he had been doing the childcare or he had had to pay someone to do it. Then if he moans about pensions etc being including blame the lawyer. Just keep saying it was their idea or that they said this is how it needs to be done. Because the solicitor will know how it needs to be done and she doesn't.

@Lemonyfuckit makes a good point, he put extra in his pension but that was for them both to share in retirement, if he'd put it in a savings account your friend would expect her half, why should his pension be any different. Tell her once the finances are settled that's it, she wont get a second chance when she finds she can't manage in what she has. With a mortgage and a smaller pension she's going to have a very poor retirement

What strikes me @Paddymcpaddy is the fact he says we will be leaving the pensions out of it as if it is his choice

because, and this is what I would be telling your friend, it isn’t

there are many men who go through life simply believing that if they decree it so it is - and I suspect that is very much how the marriage went.

but divorce doesn’t work like that - it isn’t his choice - there are clearly set out rules and one of that pensions are a joint matrimonial asset and even if you don’t get legal advice it has to be signed of by a judge a

whst she wants is pension offsetting - say fine keep your pension and I will take most of the house

both her and her ex were in the same friend group. Someone else had divorced and the ex wife took half the pension. The husband was still in the group I believe and quite bitter. They (as a group) sided with the husband and didn’t think that she should have taken his pension. I’m not sure of the specifics. But basically in their eyes touching a man’s pension is grabby and wrong. Stupid idea but that’s what they thought.

worst thing is she moved in a cocklodger who promptly lost his job and so she had to foot the bill for him for months and months and used up her whole settlement. Then he got another job eventually, earning way more than her. But everything was split 50/50 then. So she was still scrimping every month while he played Disney dad to his daughter and lavished her with gifts. Oh and he crashed her new car too.

shes honestly a fool. Can’t tolerate it.

Your friend needs local legal advice but as a rough guide :-

1. there needs to be full and frank disclosure of all income and assets of both parties. This will include all bank statements, payslips , P60 and importantly CEV’s of all pensions.
2. If the pensions are significant there will likely need to be a pension on divorce expert report (PODE). This is an actuary who will provide specialist calculations to work out what % of Husbands pension needs to be transfer to Wife to give equal income in retirement. This repost costs around £2,500 and takes around 3 months. My local court won’t approve a consent order without one.
3. The court considers two pools of assets. One liquid (money / properly you can use now ) and one of pensions. If one party is very close to retirement age the cash lump sum from the pension. MAY fall into the liquid category.
4. The court will look at how the liquid assets should be divided to meet each party’s housing need. Their needs are the same. How much is a three bed property within appropriate distance to the kids school? How much can each borrow by way of mortgage to help meet the need? Hopefully with mortgages there is enough capital to be divided to allow both to meet their needs. % division less important than need.
5. for example if there is £800k liquid assets to be divided. They both need a £600k property. Wife can only borrow £150k but Husband can borrow £250k. Court will give Wife £450k and Husband £350k as this allows them both to meet needs.
6. Court looks at pension division. What do they both NEED in retirement. Typically it’s hard to persuade the court that there shouldn’t be an equalisation of pension income. If Wife wanted more liquid capital now she could offset some pension for more cash BUT court cannot force the Husband to take only pension as he needs to meet his housing needs too.
7. income - is spousal maintenance appropriate? This is now rare. Wife would have to show she couldn’t meet her own income needs.
8. Child maintenance. Even if the care of the children is shared if one party is claiming child benefit they can claim child maintenance from the other. It’s a reduced rate but still payable.

sorry that’s really long but that’s the advice your friend will get at a first solicitors meeting.

it is very unlikely a court would approve an agreement without a pension sharing order.

Hope that helps.

You need to say to her that standard if living disparity between their parents homes is not good for kids' mental health. She will be letting the kids down if she doesn't get her fair share of the marital assets.
Fair does not mean half. Half is a starting position and the pendulum swings back and forth based on all kinds of contributing factors.

Can I suggest this very level headed and pragmatic solicitor for her to have a chat with.
https://www.mfgsolicitors.com/site/people/profile/sian.kenkre

She will be giving him 400k by not taking her share of his pension. More like 600k to be fair. I got a 70/30 split in my divorce and we had no kids.

She must get proper financial advice from a fuckass bitch solicitor with the biggest teeth she can afford. Pensions not in the communal pot my ass... The dH wishes. Of course they are. She needs to wise up now for the sake of the children

Starting point is all assets 50% he's mad if he things anyone will allow him to keep all his pension!

She's actually likely need more pension as woman live longer in terms of equalised income on retirement.

Do not agree to anything with full disclosure of all assets. Do not agree to 50@% of equity either! She may be entitled to more as her earning capacity and mortgage raising capacity will be less than his.

Get advice. Simi Padda is an amazing (and reasonable family lawyer) a d Emma Heptonstall is an amazing divorce coach if your friends needs a recommendation. I'd not have survived mine without them!

Get advice ASAP and don't believe anything "he says" because he is now a he not a we, and he won't have her best interests at heart

Also pension legislation changed a few years ago, it used to be only married pensions it's married and cohabitated as the standard! He's in for a shock!

And pension £s are often worth more than equity £s, they are worth more, so don't gets scared about housing and overlook future need x

A solicitor will sort it for her. A friend of mine ‘gave’ his £700k house to his ex in the divorce as part of a deal to keep his pension to himself. Providing she gets a good solicitor and she holds firm she’ll do fine

I should add that this house was mortgage free

He can consider his pension however he likes, but in the eyes of the law the starting point is 50:50 and she’d be a mug not to go for a fair and equal settlement.

Financial planner here.

That’s bonkers advice. Don’t follow that!

What is she going to retire on?

His share of the equity is £400k and you’re saying take the house and he keeps his £1m pension?!

The pension is going to grow in value far faster than the house will. She’d have to downsize at retirement age.

Anyway, pensions are certainly included in a financial settlement.

She needs a financial planner AND solicitor. Solicitors can’t advise on financial matters.

That pension is very much her asset too…20 year marriage where she did the lion’s share of childcare?

she’s entitled to half the value. He’d be better off just giving up the house to her completely

Very concerned that everyone is saying solicitor here. Of course she needs a good solicitor but what she really needs is good advice from a financial planner. Solicitors cannot and couldn’t possibly provided financial advice which is what she needs here

My ex offered me 50/50 on the house if we kept our pensions out of it. He was quite a comic. As I had a piffling pension because I took ten years out to care for kids there really wasn't any comparison. I told him to get stuffed. Men have very funny ideas. They conveniently forget that the reason they earn a bigger salary and have a better pension is often because their career has smoothly rolled on whilst their wives may be derailed because most of the childcare stuff falls to her.