To think higher education isn’t a right for everyone?

[UniqueOlivePombear]

Not everyone has the aptitude for university - shouldn’t vocational training be encouraged instead of pushing for degrees?

I've seen many encouraged into both or either or none.

A range of situations that can't be generalised into 'no-one is encouraged into vocational training and everyone is encouraged on to degrees'.

And some people will prosper from starting work straight from school - depends on the individual. I feel so sorry for students that go through the school/university route without pausing to think about why, or what they really want to do.

Have frequently employed new graduates - the ones that have had a break and worked between school and university (proper jobs, not an extended gap year/holiday) have been far and away the best.

Isn’t it?

I think you're being unreasonable for setting up a strawman that anyone thinks everyone should go to university.

The 7% (post-War to Blair) was probably too low. The New Labour 50% may be too high (but aim off for nursing as a degree rather than bespoke qualification as it was before that).

But there has never been a time when the majority were expected to go to university. Though of course it's a persistent middle-class aspiration

I wish vocational training was seen as important as a university degree but it will always be seen as second best.

I am always very suspicious of posters who start this sort of thread without expressing their own views.

I am concerned by the equating of higher education with university, OP don't you perceive post 18 vocation training to be another form of higher education?

When I left school, some people went to university, and a whole pile of people went off to trained by companies straight after A levels to be solicitors, accountants, etc, by their employers. That doesn't happen now.

My brother and sister went and loved their independence. It didn't suit me and I got on well with Mum and Dad so I got a job instead .Mum did the cooking and she was a splendid cook. I really liked knowing that my parents were on hand.

It isn't a right. No one is entitled to a place at university or any other form of post-18 education, academic or vocational.

As a Yr11 and 6th form teacher I'd say the tide is turning towards a real push to vocational work. With T-Levels and a vast suite of new Level 4+ apprenticeships, many students don't feel as keen on university anymore. In a recent network meeting, two of our local unis were saying they've experienced a massive drop in numbers.

45 years ago only 14% of the UK school leavers went on to University. You could come out with a degree in the social sciences, arts or humanities and still get a very good job. Many organisations employed graduates to fast-track into their middle management level. The 4 retail banks alone employed a 1000 new graduates a year to feed into their branch network. It didn't matter what subject you read, all that mattered is that you had a degree so you could apply for one of these "graduate calibre" roles (that was the euphemism that was used in the adverts that signalled that only graduates need apply).

These days, all the above is history. Nearly 3 times as many school leavers school go on to university without thinking if their choice of degree will actually help them in the workplace. What you need now to get a good job is relevant work experience or relevant skills. Unless a degree course provides this I don't think they represent value for money. Universities stress that overall average graduate salaries are still 1/3 higher than those without. The key words here being overall average, I think you will find that graduate salaries are heavily skewed towards STEM outstripping social sciences, arts and humanities.

To those who don't want to go to University, then that's probably all for the good. A good vocational role (making sure it's future proof) probably has greater earning potential than most graduates without the burden of the student debt.

I am always very suspicious of posters who start this sort of thread without expressing their own views.

Me too. Signals lazy journo or AI

It was 14% in 1970.
It was 20% in 1995 - pre Blair - not 7%!

As others have said, there's more to higher education than university degrees.

Higher education isn't right for everyone but access to higher education absolutely should be a right for everyone. Your OP seems to confuse the two.

Wrong thread. Sorry!

You are not wrong OP. Too many people have been led to believe that a ‘Mickey Mouse’ degree is better than no degree. People are trigger by the term, but it’s apt to describe the useless degrees that most people study.

Who's pushing who?

I never pushed any of mine. 2 have degrees. 2 don't. All doing well other than 1 is disabled and current can't use her degree.

Most people study useless Mickey Mouse degrees? Who knew!

Vocational training is a form of higher education, no?

Is the 1970 figure university only or university plus teacher training?

14% seems high. In my area grammar school took 10% of county kids and 30% of city kids, so say an average of 20%. Two thirds would go into 6th form, and half of those would go to uni. So that's about 7%. Secondary modern kids didn't go to uni.

I don't think people think uni is a right, rather it's a privilege for those who want to and can. But it's also not the only route, there are degree apprenticeships and other on-the-job training schemes which are also a privilege.

Who is saying it’s a ‘right’? You still need to meet the requirements for a course, quite apart from anything else.

I work in industry and have close links to higher education and roles that are professionally regulated.

Things are changing with the value of vocational training heightening. School leavers of today, tomorrow and in a decades time have different expectations and desires about learning. There is set to be a rise of on the job (pay as you learn) training and education embedded in practice. Workplaces are needing to prepare now for this and a massive amount of time and energy is being invested in the development of new routes into many regulated professions.

I agree - the figure in the 70s/80s was more like 7% and that often included both teacher training (the certificate rather than the degree) and non honours applied degrees at polys/higher ed and sometimes it included HNDs.

Purely honours degree courses at universities and polys offering them was often less than the 7% and those who went were heavily skewed toward private and middle class schools.

You are right - it was both; "tertiary education" and not all would have been university (leading to a degree).

Teacher training in particular wasn't a degree, and that's where about half our pupils went to, basically the ones that weren't likely to get the grades required for uni.