To ask you all to acknowledge this rise in non-stun slaughter?

[kinkytoes]

I've read numerous conversations on here where there seems to be a rejection of the fact that this even happens in the UK, let alone on a scale like this.

These animals need a voice! 30 million+ of them this year alone. This is not ok.

Reject Halal. Reject Kosher.

www.farminguk.com/news/rspca-calls-for-non-stun-slaughter-ban-as-numbers-rise-nearly-20-_65730.html

Because it is believed to be better for the animal/in God’s eyes. It’s blessed? I’m not personally religious so I don’t believe it, but it can’t be any worse than just killing an animal and eating it and that’s that. There’s no ‘reason’ there.

I'm vegan, having watched 'Land of hope and glory', and other documentaries. I think one of the worst parts for the animals is the way they are treated in their lives, the journey to the slaughterhouse and the waiting to be killed when they can smell the blood, fear chemicals and noises. It's all awful, so giving them a 'nice' death doesn't really address the other issues.

We all agree we need to aim for the most humane way of slaughtering animals for food if we must consume it. This is when strict separation of state and religion comes into play. State institutions are tasked, based on solid scientific evidence, to put in place best practice in abattoirs, licensing regimes etc and monitor their implementation the best their resources allow in our behalf. The issue is if certain groups of people based on religious beliefs, whatever they might be, deviate from these and demonstrably cause more suffering than state sanctioned, well-studied methods put in place by the state. They are at odds with what health authorities prescribe. I have no idea which way is more humane btw. I have no wavelength to make every single issue a hill I need to die on. Willing to learn obvly. This is why we need the state, solid institutions, checks and balances so we can trust the meat we buy comes from an ethically clean source. And this is why we need to preserve trust in science and state institutions and not allow their undermining by bad faith actors spreading false information.

I know, I have seen it so many times. Like you're not allowed to be outranged about this because you haven't said that you're outraged about X y and z also. I'd challenge anyone to look up non stun slaughter and watch a video. See if they can stomach it. And for what's it's worth I'm against all slaughter and am vegetarian before anyone wants to jump on me.

You're absolutely right about the smell and animals just knowing where they are. They know exactly what's coming and anyone who thinks otherwise is painfully naive. Ive witnessed this first hand in a different situation, with a horse being put down and the knackers lorry arriving to do the deed and take them away. They absolutely knew that that lorry was all about.

Being blessed and having your throat slit cannot possibly be better than being stunned. It's not magically less painful or terrifying because you've been blessed.

@AConcernedCitizen , Jesus! The irony of your username by the way….

That is so sad. Really sad that you have that little care for living creatures.

The non-stun aspect of halal is a matter of interpretation, not all islamic scholars agree on it. So when PP directly correlate halal with non-stun there is always a suspicion that there's an element of highlighting the religion over the method. There's also a huge amount of public ignorance and "don't want to know" about what goes on in slaughterhouses. I've worked for the meat industry and visited several slaughterhouses many times. If non-stun halal methods upset some people, I'm not sure how they'd react to some of the non-halal methods that are also used. And before taking any moral judgement from vegetarians, I always want to check if they drink milk, eat eggs, or eat fish. Because anyone that does is not in a position to cast moral judgement on others that choose to eat meat - no matter how it's slaughtered.

Unless you're vegan, don't act like somehow "stun slaughter" is ok when often the animals aren't sufficiently stunned and have already had a horrific life (regardless of what bollocks the RSPCA spout about them apparently being raised in good conditions)

This is just racist crap, unless you genuinely give a shit about not funding animal abuse, in which case you wouldn't fund any of it

This is nonsense.

My dog’s going crazy over here, can anyone hear anything?

@derxa I don't think it is. Animals are alert to changes in routine, different places, sounds and people and changes in handler's behaviour. They also have acute hearing and sense of smell. They are not machines and do, in fact, have a range of perceptions designed to increase their chances of survival. I don't know your sources for thinking otherwise.

This is the point. Animals are often kept, transported and killed in appalling conditions and if you truly cared about them, you wouldn't participate in that.

I thought I had a speaker fault.

I agree with some of what you said but the horse story seems a bit far fetched.

Stunning is ‘better’ than not stunning, so allowing to not stun shouldn’t be allowed. If humans insist on slaughtering animals to eat, the animals welfare should be the most important thing, not religion.

This.

Absolutely baffles me as a vegetarian when people use this as a reason to get at other religions🙄

I do agree a horse doesn't have the ability to predict exactly what will happen, but I also think they are quite capable of knowing something is up and being alarmed by that. But fair enough to your point.

This OP. There is so much cruelty in the meat industry. Factory farming chickens who don’t get space to roam, peck each other, have mangled rotten feet, and given growth hormones to grow much quicker than normal. Dairy cows with ulcers on their udders as they’re hooked up to metal machines small day (after their calves have been removed from them and killed so they can produce milk for us). Just two examples but I’m interested to know what lengths you go to to research issues like this and buy only free range and ethical meat and avoid dairy? If you only care about the slaughter method then it indicates you may have a race problem not an animal welfare concern.

I’m vegan and don’t find it baffling. As much as I’d love humans to stop slaughtering animals, I don’t think that is going to happen any time soon. Due to that, the best we can hope for at the moment is that the slaughter is done in a way which minimises the animals suffering, which is to stun.

Atheist, don't want to eat halal meat and I don't want to remove a modern humane way to kill an animal because of a very old pre medieval religion says so.

I want the world to move away from overt religion. Practice if you choose too absolutely but don't in any way impact general society.

I don’t know if OP is posting in good faith, but it would be quite difficult to raise and discuss all the issues around animal welfare in one post.

@InWithPeaceOutWithStress they are not mutually exclusive.
People generally post on here about current issues because it's a chat forum not a university with people putting forward thesis work.

I'm sure if a newspaper article came out today about new evidence of chicken cruelty people would comment on that.

Vegan really as dairy and egg industries involve acts that are just as cruel as the meat industry.