My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

I am still intrigued by the immigration element.
Surely this was something Brexit was supposed to, er, address? Do the people who supported Brexit feel ok about this? Are the new immigrants preferable to the ones before?

It is a polarising subject that is used to create so much division and unpleasantness (the tabloids, uugh) that I tend to just leave it well alone. No one can seem to have a sensible, calm discussion about it.

If you look all across continental Europe at places like France and Germany they are having similar problems, and brexit is obviously not the cause there so I think that brexit isn't a driving cause of mass illegal immigration.

Immigration within the EU was more transient becaue you had the right to work all over. You'd get hospitality workers for the summer etc and they'd go back.

We've swapped mostly worker European migration for people from Africa and places like Pakistan and India who then want to bring their family with them and often aren't even skilled to work and don't speak English.

European countries like Spain and Italy are more exposed geographically to the migrant crisis (close to African border). The UK as an island should be able to manage our borders better.

I’m sure Brexit voters didn’t want any immigration from the global south but their betters didn’t really care about what the voters wanted.

It was under Boris Johnson's government that numbers (legal mirgation) got out of control and that was post-Brexit.

When you dance with the devil...

In some ways I agree if people's standard of living increases. Of course we have always had people who are worse off, but I think property inequality has been the biggest problem. It all went to shit when homes became investments. That doesn't really have much to do with productivity, if anything poor accommodation actually makes it worse.

If you can afford it, I would just move to somewhere nicer. I very much suspect it won't improve anytime soon and as you get older I think it's very important to live somewhere safe.

It's all the Turkish barbers springing up around here that gets my goat.

Based in London so theres always been an element of this but the level has got off the scale in the last few years.

Groups of men just sitting drinking for hours in the middle of the pavement. A group of druggies have a spot near a primary school. We have had to call police to.move drug users sleeping on the benches of a playground.

On a Sunday morning nearly all storefronts have homeless people sleeping in them. There are people regularly passed out or zoned out on the streets. Several familiar faces regularly walk around the area shouting randomly at people they have never met.

Just on my way my 15 minute walk home from the tube I walked past two sex workers arguing about the age of a client. A man zoned out at a bus stop whilst his friend took a piss in the middle of the pavement about ten feet from a school that kids were leaving. A bus pulled over as three someone sat on it just ranting abuse at at others. This isn't even unusual.

If you want to know who is responsible, think of who would wish to destabilise Europe.

Some of it was transient. I know many, many Europeans who settled here long term with no intention of going back. These include my DH, my SIL, many colleagues, friends and school parents. I know way more Europeans who have settled permanently than those who stayed briefly. All Europeans I knew were heartbroken after Brexit and saw it as a rejection of them. They all vowed to return to their home countries but actually they're all still here and have gained British citizenship.

The issue is poverty plus housing.

Completely agree that this issue is being fuelled by putin, I imagine many of the people trafficking gangs have his grubby little mitts all over it.

I've just read an article in the Lancashire county magazine about Wigan and it sounded lovely, with pictures of the town and places to eat.It went on for pages

Part of the problem is too many MPs don't live in their constituencies and can't feel the problems. Nigel Farage anyone? Has he even set foot in Clacton? Does he truly understand the challenges of rural coastal communities or is he hoping them being poorly educated and unemployed will keep him in a job? If he were the only one doing it we could point and laugh at him but many many more MPs, especially those representing communities experiencing deprivation, haven't got a clue.

Also for counties surrounding London who lose housing stock to London boroughs buying it up to house their homeless, where's the help? Why aren't they saying stop?

It's not the prettiest place, but it's not as bad as the OP makes it out to be, and the social problems listed here apply to most UK towns and some cities.

But at what?

Given that many are illiterate in their own languages, let alone any European tongue.

But that makes it worse!

1 million people came into the country illegally in 2023 - that's from the ONS.

The population has increased exponentially over the last 20 years.

Of course there will be a change of quality of life, funding and culture as a direct result of this.

I don't understand what is so wrong with saying this?

I thought the same. I stopped in a market town in Devon a couple of months ago, hadn’t been there since 2019, and it’s very different now. It just seemed rather dead, shops closed and not taken over. It didn’t look impoverished, didn’t see anyone drinking on street , that sort of thing. It just looked sparse and it felt like its spirit had died.

Oh yeah many stayed as well, but it was more transient than what we've seen since. Most people came here from EU to work and were more culturally entwined with the UK than endless unskilled single male migrants who don't speak English, or a worker coming here and then bring their family over as dependents (who will then be on benefits).

Immigration was mostly positive in the UK, at least until Blair's miscalculation over the eastern European expansion and how many would come here. That was where the road to Brexit started.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen That is not true. Asylum seekers who get to the UK tend to have the skills to get and keep a job. If we changed the rules and said asylum seekers could work, but if they did would not get the benefits they do, many would work and move out of the really shitty accommodation they are usually housed in.

Although I don't want to be ruled by Brussels, I'd far prefer to be influenced by European culture than American.

The country is overpopulated and it's now showing, both physically and in people's attitudes...we do not need 70-80 million people living here, it is unsustainable. The natural biomass of the country supports ideally 20 million people. As we are becoming poorer, we are even less able to sustain this huge population. What on earth would we do in the case of a real disaster/war? We can't even fed ourselves independently. There is nothing racist/xenophobic about saying these things. Our focus is to ensure all countries have strong and sustainable national economies, so that people do not have to leave.

We need house prices to fall. Every government for the last 20 years has propped up house prices with policies such as temporary reductions in stamp duty.
They need to fall - a lot.

exactly it was a complete betrayal to the spirit of what they had voted for.