The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

[Nicetrynigel]

Teacher Batley
His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson.
This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned.

People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

Maybe read it again, critically?

You say parents of students who are Muslim should have been pre warned of the use of a cartoon of Muhammed and able to withdraw students from the class. This would, you infer, protect Muslim students from feeling offence.

This would suggest that the resulting threatening, bullying and murderous behaviour by Muslim students, parents and others in the community would not have happened had the teacher been 'better educated' and had pre-warned parents.

This puts the fault with the teacher; his behaviour provoked this reaction. Is this how you intended this to read?

No, you owe me nothing and if you don't wish to rationally and credibly defend what you wrote, then that's up to you. It suggests an inability to do so, either rationally or intellectually. Whichever, it's not debate, the purpose of which is to advance critical thinking. Something which the parents involved in Batley didn't display and which they are trying to deprive their children of unfortunately.

Which part

I know John ( New Testament )
( not the first book though )
Judge by what is right
Never by appearances
Never condemn
Always evaluate

Then Samuel ( Old Testament )
( not the first book though )
Basically about hypocrites passing judgement on others

Romans etc All refer to God will deal with wrong doers, do not take personal revenge, treat bad with good etc

What the first part you refer to
Old Testament, New Testament ??? which book

The poster you're responding to seems to not be cognisant of the fact that there are, in fact, muslims that depict and celebrate depictions of their prophets, including Muhammad, like in modern-day Iran, where full face and body depictions of teenage Muhammad are very popular, even in the mass media.

Aniconism seems to be stronger in sunite islam, but not so much in shia.

The kuran says nothing about any pictures. Some hadith are aniconistic, but regarding any pictures of any living human, not just the prophets, nor Muhammad.

The Bizantine empire was, at least for a time, iconoclast, so are still some protestant denominations nowadays.

It seems the whole world needs to obey not just the edicts of islam, but that of a particular interpretation of a particular sect of islam.

I'm clearly not as clever as you to be able to quote bible text, but the best examples that come to mind would be the plagues of egypt or noahs ark.

No not Birmingham, Berkshire.

This was a while back now as DD left that school two years ago now.

I can't believe anyone is defending the fact that this teacher is having to stay in hiding, in the UK in 2024.

"Oh no, why does anyone vote Reform?!". This is why.

Old Testament
Noah’s ark for example is about how God treats the good and the wicked.
The Book of Exodus is all about punishment for treating the Israelites as slaves

The teaching is the same
Be kind, be good and good things come to you
Be wicked without repentance and judgement comes ( no heaven for example )

Ultimately however never personally take revenge or judge
That is Gods work.
In theory I suppose that should lead to peace. Unfortunately it hasn’t always.

The be kind and good and it is returned and vice versa, is where my beliefs are, bit like my name is earl and karma.

In this situation my thoughts and I suspect a lot of others isn't that those threatening the teacher are in any way correct or that they shouldn't stop. But that his actions were likely to offend a group of people, and most people at the time knew that.

Now whoever was to blame for that image being used as an educational tool should at least stand up and say, sorry guys we made a mistake. But from what I can make out, nobody took responsibility.

This.

Scary that in the UK there are people who threatened or carry out violence for using a picture of a 'god'. Frankly, it's appalling. Is the faith so weak that a mere picture cannot be tolerated. Pathetic that it instills in some the want to be violent.

If someone offends me I don't respond with violence. I'm an adult. No need for a violent response to being offended.

The whole point is that showing a picture in a particular context shouldn’t be regarded as a mistake, at least not in this country.
So nobody should have to apologise or take responsibility.
Deciding that a particular action is offensive to you is no excuse for violent attacks.

Your argument is weak. It implies an equivalence between the “offence” of showing a picture and the act of destroying a person’s career and causing them to live in fear of their life.

“Sorry guys we made a mistake “ 🙄

The mistake is tolerating extremism and allowing the extremists to set the agenda.

There was a “right way” for parents to deal with the incident. That was to meet with the Headteacher ( or email) to ask about the nature of the lesson, to express their concerns and to ask for some possible adaptation to the delivery of the lesson in the future.But that approach should not be as an angry “mob”. It should be individual parents.

Oh I know!
Are all gods evil vengeful fuckers? What about Hindu Gods? Are they all nice? It baffles me why someone would worship such a god. Maybe it's actually fear of the consequences if they don't? Burning in hell for all eternity doesn't sound fun.
I remember talking to a Jewish person once about his fear of God. He said he was afraid of God, but because he was afraid of God he didn't need to fear anything else because God would protect him. Not sure how God's protection works in practice though. I expect not very well.
I think I'll stick to Santa.

I like stephan fry quote on being "offended".
I draw the line on offense when comedians make jokes about disabled people who don't realise they are being made fun of.

In the UK, anyone deciding to take "offense" at someone else's perfectly legal words or actions, to the point where they themselves are breaking the law, should be jailed.

Maybe making a few examples will make the prospect of being violent bullies less appealing.

As if we don't get enough laws from the government why do people need another layer of being told what to do

The Southport 'thugs' were jailed the Batley 'thugs' won and probably got an apology!

The poster you're responding to seems to not be cognisant of the fact that there are, in fact, muslims that depict and celebrate depictions of their prophets, including Muhammad, like in modern-day Iran, where full face and body depictions of teenage Muhammad are very popular, even in the mass media

We're all ignorant about something, @sillything, but it sometimes seems that the more ignorant they are the louder they shout

You're were correct in what you wrote of course, and in fact I pointed out about societies interpreting things differently upthread, but where it doesn't suit we continue to get comments like "muslims never do such-and-such ..."

A shame really, because it's so often ignorance which leads to trouble like this

I know!
Absolutely awful.
I'm stick of kowtowing to this hateful religion.

Is the faith so weak that a mere picture cannot be tolerated

Not among those who follow what the faith actually teaches, @OctoberOctopus, but it might be among the screamers and spitters who are completely ignoring many of its requirements

Maybe they think they're demonstrating what good muslims they are, and maybe it earns them a few brownie points among those of a similar mindset, but for those who believe in a life after this one I suspect they've got a shock coming

It’s not the religion that is hateful- it’s the behaviour of some of the people who practice the religion.

I think if this thread starts to turn into “ all Muslims …” then we are guilty of the same extremism that we’re objecting to ..

Although I do wish more moderate Muslims would speak up .. but I guess they’re also intimidated and threatened by the extremists

Plenty do, OpheliaWasntMad, as seen with things like work in communities to keep young people away from this kind of thing and much more

They'll even speak about the terrible, undermining damage the authorities do in pandering to the worst elements, but you won't see anything about THAT in the media because it doesn't suit their narrative