The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

[Nicetrynigel]

Teacher Batley
His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson.
This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned.

People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

‘The teacher had delivered a lesson on free speech and blasphemy, with a resource that included images of the Prophet Muhammad, the Pope and Jesus Christ. At least two other teachers had also used the resource in question.’

‘He used an image that features Prophet Muhammad, the Pope and Jesus Christ’ - so it was not just anti Islamic. The whole class was a discussion on free speech and blasphemy so surely the image was there to promote discussion? No need to said he was agreeing or disagreeing with what the image contained?

The lack of free speech and ability to voice one’s own opinion in the U.K. without being castigated is ridiculous.

And the reasons to show the blank paper would be? We will have riots, people will be murdered because Islam is a murderous and violent religion?

Actually, the more I think about it, and looking around the world, the more I think these images should be shown and the violent extremists dealt with using the full force of the law. The creeping demands will only get greater, they need nipping in the bud.

Not really. One of the men arrested at the Liverpool protests, met with the Inman (who had death threats, criminal damage and physical threats) from the Abdullah Quilliam Society. The Inman hasn't threatened him.

What exactly is the purpose of meeting the Imam? OK, you have death threats made against you and you need to meet a leader of the religious community making the death threats? For what? So you can plead for your life? In 21st century Britain?

Unfortunately that's what Rushdie had to do when he was being threatened.

And it still didn't work. Poor man.

And the Batley teacher doesn't have the resources Rushdie had.

It should be perfectly possible to question religions- all religions- without being accused of being racist. And a school or university is the place to do it. That's what I want for my children.

It should be perfectly possible to question religions- all religions- without being accused of being racist.

Exactly. Fwiw, I’m agnostic and would generally treat all religious beliefs with a basic level of respect - as long as their adherents don’t try to convert me or tell me how to behave.
I don’t agree that one group of believers should be treated as particularly sensitive and in need of an extra careful approach though.
Being shown a blank piece of paper while adherents of other religions are shown caricatures of their prophets. Not being challenged becuse of already existing tensions - where will this end?

If the Iman has a power to stop the threats and doesn't do it , isn't it some kind of helping the crime?

Absolutely not. The cartoon was offensive to a small number of adults. Sexist and racist issues are discussed IN CONTEXT in schools all the time; it's how students learn about things, and how they develop critical thinking, by not being shielded from things which might be "offensive" to a small number of people. In the UK, you don't have the legal right to not be offended. A discussion, in an RE lesson, about why something is offensive to some people but not to others in a FREE SECULAR COUNTRY is not a reason to sack or threaten death.

If you really don't see how ridiculous it is for a teacher to lose their life because they are trying to teach a valuable lesson to students, then perhaps you should question whether living in a free society is really for you.

I do wonder whether you would have the same disgust for left-leaning teachers who spout their anti-Tory rhetoric in schools frequently...

That’s a valid point.
In response to pp, I also think that whether or not Imams tend to threaten people in similar situations is not the (only) issue here.
If someone is threatened by several members of a certain community, they shouldn’t need to go and talk/ apologise to the religious/spiritual leader of said community.
As a victim, they might choose to try and avoid that community all together.

As a descendant of immigrants I'm afraid I will impose my views about separate taps for hot and cold water until the day I die. And washing machines in the kitchen.

Faucets for washing your bum in the loo. They must be imposed by law! 😄

Most terrorist outrages in the UK in the last century were committed by Catholic or Protestant sectarians associated with Northern Ireland

And this is precisely why some of us resist all organised religion rather than just one - because rather the following the original teachings most have been corrupted into a kind of weird tribal attraction who too often regard themselves as above the law

Again, people with a true faith don't behave like this, and there's a good reason why many such folk avoid manmade religions like the plague

Ha, can’t disagree with you here!

No it is a matter of respect. To knowingly do something that will offend people when another option was open to him. The teacher was at best foolhardy, and I'm still not convinced it wasn't a 'statement' by him given his subject and the local population's feelings.

Opening the dialogue of why some muslims consider it wrong is what should have happened. Not what did.

Do we owe religion respect?

I have my own opinions on religion, most of them are organised religions and are a load of self serving nonsense. But I also respect others rights to believe what they wish.

A seasonal example of this would be telling a young child santa doesn't exist. I know he doesn't but I choose not to tell that child as it will upset him.

Of course the outcome in Batley is disgusting and way OTT. But given most UK adults knew after what happened in France the significance of showing that image, surely this teacher should have as well.

My DCs former school had a bunch of women from a certain group decide to picket outside the school gate.
They had taken offence to the school teaching about sex, LGBTQ and about pregnancy. They also found it offensive that the teens were taught that not everyone is married when they have children. All standard national curriculum stuff.

They stood outside with banners, screaming at people. My DD had one scream at her, in her face, because DD had a range of badges on her blazer, including at the time Black Lives Matter emblems, and Pride rainbows. DD, being made of sterner stuff, told them to get out of her way, as being near may mean they "caught homosexuality" as she is gay. They were very angry and she walked into school, laughing. Other kids didn't find it hilarious though and a few were very upset.

At the end of her tether, and with no help from the police, the headmistress made a note of whose parents were at the gate. At the end of the school day, each parent was emailed. In the email, it said "our school is inclusive and as such, we teach National curriculum items on Sex, religion, marriage, pregnancy and many other topics to help our pupils grow and make informed choices. Should this be something you no longer wish your child to engage in, we advise you to give us notice that your child/ren will be deregistered by the end of the week. Otherwise, your picket is expected to cease by tomorrow at Registration or those pupils will be taken off the roll."

It then went on to add the current figures for waiting lists for other schools in the area. The rest of us received an email detailing the above and welcoming in school discussion but not abuse of pupils and staff. It also said if anyone else wants to dereg, let her know.

The next morning, not one of them stood outside and DD said only one boy from her classes disappeared.

I felt this was the best way to deal with morons trying to change how we do things. Never apologise. Never give in. All schools should do the same.

Every weekend people wave flags knowing that will offend people - offending folk is normal
Knowing the situation in his area? What! But in a volatile situation in Paris?
Meet the imam to plead for your life?
Showing this caricature isn't the problem it's why we shouldn't show it - that's the problem

The problem is, when you try to appease thugs, they inevitably go further.

The people who be headed the teacher in France want to create an atmosphere of fear and retribution around blasphemy.

People come to this country to get away from attitudes like that. We don't want to foster that kind of behaviour.

No one has a right not to be offended but we all have a right to live without threat or intimidation. I think people should grow a thicker skin and deal with other people's opinions without threatening them.

As such we should come down like a tonne of bricks on those who want to impose their medieval and uncivilised views on others.

I wouldn't tell a young child Santa does not exist. But by secondary, we should be able to debate the merits and demerits of all religions in class.

I'm clearly missing something. What is a student going to learn from a blank piece of paper?
Why has a child opted for a sixth form class that will encourage debate around religion when they find debate around religion offensive? Was ths done to deliberately stir up trouble in the school? Should it be seen as a hate crime?

I can say with absolutely no doubt at all that I know more about the whole thing than you ever will.
I genuinely don't need to be lectured by someone who thinks appeasing these people is the best of all possible solutions.

If the discussion is about the religions in question showing images of God, Jesus, Any of the many Indian Gods alongside a black piece of paper would imo have far more effect than showing the insulting image and the outcome that happened.

I might be wrong but I thought it was a group of 14/15 year olds he was teaching so they wouldn't be in sixth form.