The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

[Nicetrynigel]

Teacher Batley
His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson.
This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned.

People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

I honestly don't understand the issue you have with me. I live in Paris. My DH and I watched the news about the shootings and we were scared for our family. That is our experience. What do you need?

It is tolerated though.
Anyone remember that autistic kid who dropped or threw a Koran on the floor? I remember his mum had to go to the local mosque, practically crawling on her belly, to beg for his life.
I too am sick of this shit.
I remember I had fully swallowed the 'religion of peace' bullshit when I was young. It isn't individual terrorist attacks or the death threats (or murder) for perceived slights, that has rid me of the 'religion of peace' view. It's the silence from the wider community in not condemning such actions. Well, that and watching the last 30 years.

FFS! I don't agree with her but that doesn't mean we're all violent thugs! Where are you from so I can stereotype you?

Of course such caricatures could be used in a lesson on critical thinking! Or to show Nazi propaganda against Jews, for example.
It's a mystery why he wouldn't want to meet the Imam after the death threats, isn't it.

This is fucking absurd. You also wouldn’t be at risk of beheading if you ‘used disabled jokes’. You’re saying someone deserves to DIE because they show a picture? People like you defending the indefensible - defending medieval practices in a first world democracy - really paint Islam in a bad light. You’re implying followers can’t control their murderous intent.

We already have a de facto blasphemy law in the UK if you show a PICTURE and end up in hiding for 4 years or so. If you’re an autistic teen who scuffs a religious book and is made to apologise to avert a baying mob. This ‘blasphemy law’ certainly doesn’t apply to any other religions but Islam though. Look at what is said and done towards Christians.

I’m an atheist who believes all sky fairies are equally ridiculous

No but almost all extremists ready to commit atrocities are Muslims.

It’s despicable that Kim Leadbetter, and all
politicians have been too craven to protect this teacher and come down like a ton of bricks on the evil bastards threatening his life

What should the statement say? "I am not sorry at the slightest, because learning about dealing with supposed blasphemy in a civilised way is a crucial lesson many need to learn, as was so pointedly illustrated by this mob".

And if the Iman didn't stop the mob already, what new insights would he got from the meeting? There is literally no reason for apology, unles "I am sorry that you feel that way, but this is legal and important, deal with it".

The only sad part is that the police isn't taking it seriously and dealing with the mobsters.

Well, thank you for your homophobia?

Yes, it doesn't work that way; sexual orientation is something you can't help. If you're a lesbian woman, even if you're born in a country that has the death penalty for homosexuality (all of which are islamic theocracies), you're not magically able to undo an inborn trait. Much like you (as in Barakata) can't be converted into being attracted to women, and only women, lesbian women cannot be converted into heterosexual, or, for that matter, bisexual.

Religion, on the other hand, isn't inborn. It's a fleeting social construct, far more religions have died and left no trace in history than the ones that are extant or historically recorded. If all written and oral records about Muhammud disappeared, islam would never arise again. Like all other religions, it is a fairy tale.

Lesbians have existed for thousands of years before islam rose, and will continue to exist long after it disappears.

It is very vile that you should compare them.

You may not be able to change who you're attracted to, but you can "physically be" with a male. For people who are very devoted to their religion, changing their ways of thinking might feel just as hard to them. It might be a very long time ago, but people used to choose to be killed rather than renounce their religion, similar to your example.

I doubt that's a choice that's easily made.

Tolerance shouldn't only be in one way i.e. to more socially acceptable areas emg sexuality. If we're to be tolerant people, then it should also cover people's beliefs, whether or not we share them. Doesn't mean we should accept death threats or violence though.

You might want to be withdraw unfounded accusations

Oh well, I did try to have a sensible conversation.

You do realise the situation in Paris didn't start and end with the murders at the magazine? It went on for several days and involved more murders including a police officer, as well as serious rioting even for Paris standards by muslim Parisiens. Many peoples property was destroyed.

Nobody is saying what they were doing was in any way right. But in a volatile situation like Paris and Batley at the time, it would be prudent not to use a known upsetting image. Even if as is claimed it was regularly used as a teaching aid at the school. An educated RE teacher should know that.

The more interesting question is why this is.

He was a classroom teacher. He was given a course to follow and probably didn't have a lot of say in the matter.

I did a stint at a boys' Catholic school where one of the poems that the English Dept had to teach was Spike Milligan's "Unto Us". The women working in the department had no say over whether or not they would teach it, because they were only classroom teachers.

Actually in NI there was frequent sectarian violence until the 90s, and ridiculing the Pope to Catholics, or the Protestant church to Protestants, could easily elicit extreme reactions. Even today, it probably wouldn't be advisable.

Not that any sort of religious violence is excusable; and surely if one does believe in an all-powerful God, who abhors blasphemy, He must be quite capable of sending down thunderbolts to punish blasphemers without any need for assistance from humans.

That is a possibility, but knowing the situation in his area and the issue that image could well cause. I'd suggest someone who is clever enough to be a teacher should have the sense to refuse to use that particular image.

I don't know that particular poem by Spike Lee so can't comment on it's suitability.

As I said before, show a blank paper when they came to mohammed and explain the reasons why. Then allow the class to discuss and come to their own conclusion.

@ToWhitToWhoo
Not that any sort of religious violence is excusable; and surely if one does believe in an all-powerful God, who abhors blasphemy, He must be quite capable of sending down thunderbolts to punish blasphemers without any need for assistance from humans.

Now don't go throwing logic about where religion is concerned. 😆

Since you mention Kim Leadbeater, her sister Jo Cox was murdered by an extremist who was not a Muslim. Rosie Cooper narrowly escaped a similar fate.

Most terrorist outrages in the UK in the last century were committed by Catholic or Protestant sectarians associated with Northern Ireland.

Most mass shooters in the USA are not Muslims.

Anders Breivik isn't a Muslim.

Yes, there are some dangerous extremist Islamic organizations that have far too much influence at the moment; but that doesn't mean that most Muslims, or only Muslims, are terrorists or violent extremists.

Spike Milligan.

You'll find that teachers cannot refuse to follow the course plans that they're instructed to use.

"show a blank paper when they came to mohammed and explain the reasons why."

"You see, we'd be threatened with death and forced into exile, while receiving no protection from the authorities, if we were to show you an illustration that's very commonplace in, for instance, modern-day Iran, of a figure with no contemporary historical attestation, but that was reported to be a vindictive warlord who personally murdered people, kept slaves and had sex with a 9 year old girl? No turban-based bombs back then? Yes, but a sword can do a lot of damage too!

Here, have a look at the Piss Christ instead [a crucifix immersed in urine]. Did you know the pope received and actually blessed the artist?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

I agree with what you’re saying but
That’s a tricky example to show as the issue of it being blasphemous is neither accepted by the Pope, the artist or many Catholics.
It wasn’t surposed to be blasphemous
The artist was a Catholic
It formed one of many pieces set in liquid
Many people, including Christians, believed it depicted the way Catholics and God are treated today

Some people were horrified by it

However the horrified and upset didn’t make death threats of course, which I suppose is the point.

As an aside it would be a good art piece to discuss the subject of blasphemy with children….ie is it isn’t it.

Much like the importance of other visual pieces for discussion

Wow what a disgusting and ridiculous comparison. Sexuality is hardcoded into who we are, belief in sky daddy is not.

There is a ridiculous amount of tolerance where religion is concerned, or should I say - certain religions. As seen with the Batley incident, once again the authorities pussyfooting around downright thuggery in the name of religion.

But you could also use this image to criticise racist depiction of religion (I show it to my A level students who are a mix of religions and they often find that freedom of speech should not be used as an excuse to be racist or to purposedly offent certain groups in the society)- in the same way where you could and do debate in classroom sexist jokes giving students opportunity to tacke such issues rather than pretending jokes/caricatures etc dont exist.