Page 13 | The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

Nicetrynigel · 2024-12-03T05:55:13+00:00

[[https://neilwilby.com/2024/03/24/batley-grammar-school-teacher-felt-totally-isolated-abandoned-and-suicidal-due-to-inadequate-support-from-relevant-agencies/ Teacher Batley]] His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson. This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned. People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

Nosleepforthismum · 03/12/2024 23:59

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:49

These "make-believe" men, whether we call them prophets, or gods, or messiahs, are important to a lot of people.

I would just suggest to be nice when talking about them.

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Or what? Death threats like the teacher has had?

ARealitycheck · 04/12/2024 00:00

Kendodd · 03/12/2024 23:53

I wonder what percentage of Muslims do?
I know you can be executed in some Muslim countries for being gay. Don't know any Christian countries were this is the case.

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I believe there are a number of African countries with a large christian following that still criminalise homosexuality. Some with corporal punishment. Lets not forget it isn't that long since Ireland legalised it.

tachetastic · 04/12/2024 00:00

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 03/12/2024 23:56

He went to the moon, Allah split the moon for Mo, it's a miracle that Muslims believe in.

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Thank you. Christians believe Jesus raised the dead and turned water into wine. These are all beautiful miracles.

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 04/12/2024 00:01

Hey diddle, diddle, the cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon,
The little dog laughed to see such sport,
And the dish ran away with the spoon.

It's about as believable as Allah splitting the Moon for Mo.

WaitingforStrike · 04/12/2024 00:04

"Mismanaging a lesson" should lead to what kind of consequences - an email from a parent? A warning from the headteacher?
Not the need to go into hiding and fear for your life.

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 04/12/2024 00:04

Do you actually believe that? I turned water into wine, I added concentrated grape juice and yeast, left it in my airing cupboard for 2 weeks ...

ARealitycheck · 04/12/2024 00:05

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 04/12/2024 00:04

Do you actually believe that? I turned water into wine, I added concentrated grape juice and yeast, left it in my airing cupboard for 2 weeks ...

You never did??? Jesus!!!

Cailleach1 · 04/12/2024 00:06

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:55

I didn't mean that they died for a cause, and I suspect you knew this.

But they died as a result, which I think questions the wisdom of a highly educated man, a teacher, from using these images that have already led to so much harm.

And please do not lecture me about that night in Paris that I lived through.

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No, murder sprees are not a normal or natural ‘consequence’ of satirical cartoons at all. The people who decided to murder so many people in cold blood caused all the harm.

I wonder what excuse can be proferred for the targeting of a kosher supermarket with murderous intent? The cartoons?

Twototwo15 · 04/12/2024 00:07

It isn't ok for a Teacher to be an offensive fuckwit
Probably not but it’s far less ok to make someone so fearful for their life that they are forced into hiding for ever more.

ItoldyouIwassick · 04/12/2024 00:07

I think you have misunderstood the entire idea of freedom of worship within a secular state. Until you grasp what this means it will be difficult to have a rational discussion about what happened in Batley and who was at fault.

But just in case you were wondering, it was the students and their parents and the members of their community who took part in hounding the teacher who were in the wrong, legally. No mismanagement about it on the teacher's behalf. He wasn't Muslim so couldn't be breaking an Islamic taboo. Offence was felt. It's OK to dicuss the feeling of offence. It isn't OK to break the law because of feeling offence.

Putting someone in fear of their life because of a cartoon? No, that doesn't make sense in a civilised society.

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:07

User8646382 · 03/12/2024 23:56

The school are frightened and with good reason. The police are not going to offer them any protection - they are on their own.

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Or maybe they remembered that the law permits parents to withdraw their children from certain children and that these parents should
have been given the right to do so in
this case as well.

Muslims were singled out badly in this case.

SeatonCarew · 04/12/2024 00:08

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 21:50

But if that image being satirised despite it being likely to cause offence that makes it ok?

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That's kind of the point of satire. 🤷‍♀️

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:09

WaitingforStrike · 04/12/2024 00:04

"Mismanaging a lesson" should lead to what kind of consequences - an email from a parent? A warning from the headteacher?
Not the need to go into hiding and fear for your life.

No one has said it should lead to that.

But denying parents the right to withdraw their children from a lesson by not making them aware is not the right approach.

ForegoneConfusion · 04/12/2024 00:10

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:07

Or maybe they remembered that the law permits parents to withdraw their children from certain children and that these parents should
have been given the right to do so in
this case as well.

Muslims were singled out badly in this case.

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The Khan review implies that the issue wasn't only with this one lesson:

"the reviewer was concerned to hear about predominantly male Muslim activists and 'community leaders' aggressively interfering in schools across Batley. From successful attempts at banning legitimate religious books to interfering in essays, class discussions and debates about religion or other topics, such activists seek to impose their dogmatic religious beliefs in non-faith schools and interfere in the teaching of the national curriculum".

"We heard how these faith activists appeared to exert disproportionate influence among institutions and public bodies in the area and had created a climate of fear among some schools, who felt they had little power to push back".

User8646382 · 04/12/2024 00:12

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:07

Or maybe they remembered that the law permits parents to withdraw their children from certain children and that these parents should
have been given the right to do so in
this case as well.

Muslims were singled out badly in this case.

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To say the response was hardly proportionate would be a ridiculous understatement.

rayofsunshine86 · 04/12/2024 00:12

latetonews · 03/12/2024 23:52

People are terrified of being accused of being racist . The new mosque in our neighbourhood causes parking mayhem with driveways being blocked and young men regularly driving at speed down our narrow streets full of children walking from school. No one says a word about it but is very quick to moan about the same behaviour from school mums at drop off and pick up times.

This sums it up, really.

ARealitycheck · 04/12/2024 00:14

ForegoneConfusion · 04/12/2024 00:10

The Khan review implies that the issue wasn't only with this one lesson:

"the reviewer was concerned to hear about predominantly male Muslim activists and 'community leaders' aggressively interfering in schools across Batley. From successful attempts at banning legitimate religious books to interfering in essays, class discussions and debates about religion or other topics, such activists seek to impose their dogmatic religious beliefs in non-faith schools and interfere in the teaching of the national curriculum".

"We heard how these faith activists appeared to exert disproportionate influence among institutions and public bodies in the area and had created a climate of fear among some schools, who felt they had little power to push back".

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If all that was going on in the background, then all the more reason to not show an incendiary image. These problems were issues for both the school and education department locally to deal with.

SeatonCarew · 04/12/2024 00:15

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 22:13

Just done a little more research. The image he showed was the 'je suis charlie' one from charlie ebdo. Which was renowned worldwide for causing muslim offence. The mid 20's teacher was stupid.

Ah yes, the one responsible for the murder of a number of French journalists. Which doesn't appear to bother you at all.

Livelovebehappy · 04/12/2024 00:17

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:09

No one has said it should lead to that.

But denying parents the right to withdraw their children from a lesson by not making them aware is not the right approach.

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But that’s the way it is. Children can’t just decide not to attend a lesson because they don’t like the content. My dcs at 8 had a sex education lesson. I felt it should be my role as a parent to go through this with them. But not a chance in hell was I allowed to withdraw my child from the lesson. To have different rules sets you on a dangerous road. They have to abide by the rules - far too much self entitlement by a certain section of the community, brought about by the authorities trying to appease their demands at every turn.

ARealitycheck · 04/12/2024 00:20

SeatonCarew · 04/12/2024 00:15

Ah yes, the one responsible for the murder of a number of French journalists. Which doesn't appear to bother you at all.

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Where do you get that idea? If you read another poster who describes being in Paris during the time where rioters were wrecking homes and businesses in protest to that particular image.

Why then would it be sensible to show it to the children of a local population who thought similar to them.

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:21

People keep saying the teacher had a right to teach what he wanted. But what about the right of the parents to withdraw their child from the lesson? Or do their rights not matter because they’re Muslim and so should just suck it up?

It’s right to condemn the death threats but also acknowledge that you have to allow Muslims the same rights as everyone else.

WearyAuldWumman · 04/12/2024 00:24

I cannot abide interference in lessons because of religion.

My own experience has been of one set of Baptist parents trying to insist that we not use any texts involving witches and/or magic. (The Harry Potter books were cited as texts we couldn't use.)

I had to point out to the SLT that - in that case - we had a problem, since we used A Midsummer Night's Dream with our most able pupils in S2/Y9. I believe that the SLT mentioned that to the parents.

ISTR that I was able to have a sensible discussion around it with the eldest child in the family. Fortunately, he had no problem getting his head round the idea that the characters were fictitious. [No, I didn't draw parallels with any other texts he might have been reading. Apart from anything else, our then Heidie was another religious nut. Deep joy.]

If the parents had come in ranting, I was happy enough to take the fall - I was close enough to retirement. Mind you, at least I didn't have to worry about anyone threatening me.

Enough4me · 04/12/2024 00:25

Reform will be laughing all the way to the next polls due to this situation and similar (e.g. two tier Kier's coming down on incitement of hate but not grooming gangs), enough people are fed up!
Rather than Reform, I'd like to see a system where everyone is made clear of the same rules and they are equally applied. Want to live here - follow the rule of the land.

Dimpliy · 04/12/2024 00:26

Livelovebehappy · 04/12/2024 00:17

But that’s the way it is. Children can’t just decide not to attend a lesson because they don’t like the content. My dcs at 8 had a sex education lesson. I felt it should be my role as a parent to go through this with them. But not a chance in hell was I allowed to withdraw my child from the lesson. To have different rules sets you on a dangerous road. They have to abide by the rules - far too much self entitlement by a certain section of the community, brought about by the authorities trying to appease their demands at every turn.

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But the law does allow it. From Gov.uk:

Sex education
…Parents can ask to withdraw their child from parts or all of sex education taught as part of relationships and sex education.

Religious education
Schools have to teach RE but parents can withdraw their children for all or part of the lessons.

What’s your section of the community? The ill informed?

ARealitycheck · 04/12/2024 00:31

WearyAuldWumman · 04/12/2024 00:24

I cannot abide interference in lessons because of religion.

My own experience has been of one set of Baptist parents trying to insist that we not use any texts involving witches and/or magic. (The Harry Potter books were cited as texts we couldn't use.)

I had to point out to the SLT that - in that case - we had a problem, since we used A Midsummer Night's Dream with our most able pupils in S2/Y9. I believe that the SLT mentioned that to the parents.

ISTR that I was able to have a sensible discussion around it with the eldest child in the family. Fortunately, he had no problem getting his head round the idea that the characters were fictitious. [No, I didn't draw parallels with any other texts he might have been reading. Apart from anything else, our then Heidie was another religious nut. Deep joy.]

If the parents had come in ranting, I was happy enough to take the fall - I was close enough to retirement. Mind you, at least I didn't have to worry about anyone threatening me.

My own experience has been of one set of Baptist parents trying to insist that we not use any texts involving witches and/or magic.

Obviously didn't see the irony of believing a book where the lead character fed the multitude with 5 fish and a few hovis loaves, turned water into alcohol and walked on water. 😂