Page 12 | The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

Nicetrynigel · 2024-12-03T05:55:13+00:00

[[https://neilwilby.com/2024/03/24/batley-grammar-school-teacher-felt-totally-isolated-abandoned-and-suicidal-due-to-inadequate-support-from-relevant-agencies/ Teacher Batley]] His life ruined because a bunch of thugs decided they didn't like what he was teaching in his RE lesson. This and the Labour MP's request for bhalsphey laws against those of the Abrahamic faith have made me concerned. People should be free to offer an view against another's religion. It's scary that we are being a country where people thing being offended gives them a right to made death threats.

Bookgrrrl · 03/12/2024 23:27

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:18

So the Muslims should be arrested for making use of free speech? Hilarious 😂

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Oh grow up, now you’re just being deliberately disingenuous.

Making threats against people is not free speech.

Forcing a school to close is not free speech.

Gathering in public when it was forbidden by COVID laws for people to do so (and those laws were wielded very heavily in many other contexts) is not free speech.

I’ve laid my case out very clearly and I’ve provided a police FOI to show I’m not spreading misinformation. You’re just a troll and I’m done engaging with you.

Menopausalsourpuss · 03/12/2024 23:27

Why were they just at the scene, why weren't they moving them on (especially as during Covid)? I'm sure if anyone else did that they would be treating roughly like the Sarah Everard women around the same time who weren't even threatening anyone.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/12/2024 23:27

The police can’t arrest anyone unless they’re there
Demonstrators attended again the following morning, but had dispersed by mid-afternoon

As assertions go this one seems weaker than most
Even by a generous interpretation that means probably 4 hours of protest, and as a useful comparison maybe consider just how long it would take the police to arrive if a group of non-muslim parents shouted death threats outside an Islamic school

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 03/12/2024 23:29

Menopausalsourpuss · 03/12/2024 23:24

Not sure what relevance your personal views have to anything in this discussion - you are entitled to think what you like.

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I mean, the claims of most religions are nonsense that usually include some magical thinking similar to "virgin births" or "Mohammed goes to the moon" or golden tablets etc. Incredibly rational people are debating this nonsense.

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:30

Menopausalsourpuss · 03/12/2024 23:21

They were inciting violence and threatening a teacher as well as obstructing people trying to enter a school. Those are offences.

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What’s your evidence?

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:33

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/12/2024 23:27

The police can’t arrest anyone unless they’re there
Demonstrators attended again the following morning, but had dispersed by mid-afternoon

As assertions go this one seems weaker than most
Even by a generous interpretation that means probably 4 hours of protest, and as a useful comparison maybe consider just how long it would take the police to arrive if a group of non-muslim parents shouted death threats outside an Islamic school

I see you selectively removed the person I was responding to. They said they weren’t bothered that police weren’t there, just that no arrests were made.

If you don’t see why that’s a weak assertion then there’s no hope.

Kendodd · 03/12/2024 23:34

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 21:39

Oh your quite right the opinion of other people regarding religion shouldn't control somebody else. As far as I'm concerned he can show pictures of anything he likes. But the reality is unless I am really stupid, I wouldn't stand in front of the local mosque at Friday prayers and hand out pictures of their God as I know it will offend deeply.

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Also, like to point out, there's a very real chance you will be murdered if you did that in front of a mosque.

Go to a church instead. Much safer.

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:35

ItoldyouIwassick · 03/12/2024 23:21

You may not have said implicitly that death threats are justifiable but you seem to apologise for the behaviour that preceeded it.

Muslims were singled out.

How?

The images are a red herring, it’s the assumption that Muslims should just accept being treated differently that causes anger.

How were/are Muslims treated differently? If they are, is anger to be tolerated or submitted to in your opinion?

He seemed to lack the basic knowledge that Muslims don’t share any images of the prophets, even positive ones.

But he wasn't a Muslim himself. So it isn't something taboo for him to do. Again, people can be offended, that's not a criminal offence. Neither is it justification to committ a criminal offence. So why apologise for behaviour that is illegal?

I think part of the problem here is that people don't understand that offence is ok. If you choose to follow a particular religion, that's fine. But you cannot expect others who don't follow it to adhere to it too, just because you want them to. In a secular school, in a secular country you have every right to express your opinion, to discuss and debate to explain why you find something offensive. What you don't have the right to do is stop the debate with threats and bullying. This is where the fault lies in this instance, not with a teacher showing an image.

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It’s possible to think someone handled a situation badly but not want them to be threatened or hurt.

Is that really outside the sphere of your understanding?

For example I thought Trump is a terrible leader but I’m glad he wasn’t assassinated. Does that make sense?

Nosleepforthismum · 03/12/2024 23:35

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:18

My heart goes out to this poor man, who will probably live in fear for his entire life, for him and his family.

But, I do also think he is a highly intelligent man who is responsible for the safety of his pupils. I live in Paris and the Charlie Hebdoe cartoons that it seems he showed to his class were the cause of one of the biggest massacres in modern French history, and it was the production of the images that triggered the reaction that led to 12 people losing their lives. You can argue the drivers of criminal or psychopathic behaviour but these images were clearly a trigger,

For a teacher to use these same images (assuming they were the same, they sound the same) in a lesson my sense is that he was being deliberately provocative. He was expecting a reaction. If he didn't then he was naive. He may not have expected such a great reaction, but if so then I still think that was also naive. We are less than 10 years since people died for this. I think it is grossly irresponsible for him to have done this in a school, without regard for the possible reaction.

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I think the images should be shared far and wide quite frankly. Take away the power. This utter nonsense over a cartoon of a make-believe man.

MonikerTwo · 03/12/2024 23:38

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 03/12/2024 23:29

I mean, the claims of most religions are nonsense that usually include some magical thinking similar to "virgin births" or "Mohammed goes to the moon" or golden tablets etc. Incredibly rational people are debating this nonsense.

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I don’t think it’s necessary to mock peoples faith (obviously you are free to do so but it is bad manners)
And I don’t think the teacher was mocking religious faith. I think he was using a topic for debate .
Whatever the case - we shouldn’t live in a country where people can be bullied and terrorised for something they’ve said .

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 23:39

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 03/12/2024 23:29

I mean, the claims of most religions are nonsense that usually include some magical thinking similar to "virgin births" or "Mohammed goes to the moon" or golden tablets etc. Incredibly rational people are debating this nonsense.

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ItoldyouIwassick · 03/12/2024 23:41

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:35

It’s possible to think someone handled a situation badly but not want them to be threatened or hurt.

Is that really outside the sphere of your understanding?

For example I thought Trump is a terrible leader but I’m glad he wasn’t assassinated. Does that make sense?

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It's not outside my sphere of understanding, no.

Teaching in a secular school, in a secular country (repeating that part until it penetrates your sphere of understanding) he was perfectly within his rights to teach the lesson he taught. The reaction from 'offended' students and their parents was the badly handled part of the situation.

It's perfectly possible to follow your own religion and be offended by people who don't also follow your religion but not act criminally because of it. Does that make sense?

Cailleach1 · 03/12/2024 23:44

@tachetastic “We are less than 10 years since people died for this.”

They didn’t just die for anything. 11 people who worked at a satirical magazine were murdered in cold blood. They didn’t decide to become martyrs. They published a satirical magazine. With satirical cartoons.

A policeman was also murdered outside the magazine offices.

It also led to a spate of other similar murders over a couple of days. Jewish people were pointedly targeted as well. One attack was on a Kosher supermarket, where four Jewish people were murdered.

ACynicalDad · 03/12/2024 23:46

It's awful, the idea of blasphemy laws are bat shit crazy. If you come and live here great, but largely assimilate to the values of most of the host country.

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:46

ItoldyouIwassick · 03/12/2024 23:41

It's not outside my sphere of understanding, no.

Teaching in a secular school, in a secular country (repeating that part until it penetrates your sphere of understanding) he was perfectly within his rights to teach the lesson he taught. The reaction from 'offended' students and their parents was the badly handled part of the situation.

It's perfectly possible to follow your own religion and be offended by people who don't also follow your religion but not act criminally because of it. Does that make sense?

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As I said, I believe he mismanaged the lesson. He could have pre warned the parents what he was planning to share. The school have acknowledged it was badly planned and they are a better authority than you.

You don’t need to keep repeating points that have already been addressed. Does that make sense? I can repeat it again if it needs embedding in your sphere of understanding.

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 23:48

Cailleach1 · 03/12/2024 23:44

@tachetastic “We are less than 10 years since people died for this.”

They didn’t just die for anything. 11 people who worked at a satirical magazine were murdered in cold blood. They didn’t decide to become martyrs. They published a satirical magazine. With satirical cartoons.

A policeman was also murdered outside the magazine offices.

It also led to a spate of other similar murders over a couple of days. Jewish people were pointedly targeted as well. One attack was on a Kosher supermarket, where four Jewish people were murdered.

What you state imo supports why his showing that image in a community with a high number of muslims was wrong. Nobody is saying the behaviour is in any way correct, but doing something that had proven consequences like that is utter madness.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/12/2024 23:48

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 22:03

Or maybe teachers need to be educated better. If he had done his homework he would have known that Muslims do not ever create depictions of the prophets, even positive ones. Then he could have pre warned parents that there would be imagery used and explained why. And parents should have been given the right to say they didn’t want their child present.

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You are misinformed. The Mughal Empire used images of the Prophet in the Koran and in secular literature. Here’s one ( I’ve called it sensitive as I don’t want to force anyone to see it, although it is both beautiful and respectful)

Sensitive content

The teacher from Batley is still in hiding

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:49

Nosleepforthismum · 03/12/2024 23:35

I think the images should be shared far and wide quite frankly. Take away the power. This utter nonsense over a cartoon of a make-believe man.

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These "make-believe" men, whether we call them prophets, or gods, or messiahs, are important to a lot of people.

I would just suggest to be nice when talking about them.

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:49

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/12/2024 23:48

You are misinformed. The Mughal Empire used images of the Prophet in the Koran and in secular literature. Here’s one ( I’ve called it sensitive as I don’t want to force anyone to see it, although it is both beautiful and respectful)

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That doesn’t change that it’s not permitted.

latetonews · 03/12/2024 23:52

People are terrified of being accused of being racist . The new mosque in our neighbourhood causes parking mayhem with driveways being blocked and young men regularly driving at speed down our narrow streets full of children walking from school. No one says a word about it but is very quick to moan about the same behaviour from school mums at drop off and pick up times.

Kendodd · 03/12/2024 23:53

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 22:33

25% of Christians oppose gay rights.

www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/#:~:text=When%20the%20question%20was%20next,of%20those%20with%20no%20affiliation.

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I wonder what percentage of Muslims do?
I know you can be executed in some Muslim countries for being gay. Don't know any Christian countries were this is the case.

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:55

Cailleach1 · 03/12/2024 23:44

@tachetastic “We are less than 10 years since people died for this.”

They didn’t just die for anything. 11 people who worked at a satirical magazine were murdered in cold blood. They didn’t decide to become martyrs. They published a satirical magazine. With satirical cartoons.

A policeman was also murdered outside the magazine offices.

It also led to a spate of other similar murders over a couple of days. Jewish people were pointedly targeted as well. One attack was on a Kosher supermarket, where four Jewish people were murdered.

I didn't mean that they died for a cause, and I suspect you knew this.

But they died as a result, which I think questions the wisdom of a highly educated man, a teacher, from using these images that have already led to so much harm.

And please do not lecture me about that night in Paris that I lived through.

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 03/12/2024 23:56

tachetastic · 03/12/2024 23:49

These "make-believe" men, whether we call them prophets, or gods, or messiahs, are important to a lot of people.

I would just suggest to be nice when talking about them.

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He went to the moon, Allah split the moon for Mo, it's a miracle that Muslims believe in.

User8646382 · 03/12/2024 23:56

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:46

As I said, I believe he mismanaged the lesson. He could have pre warned the parents what he was planning to share. The school have acknowledged it was badly planned and they are a better authority than you.

You don’t need to keep repeating points that have already been addressed. Does that make sense? I can repeat it again if it needs embedding in your sphere of understanding.

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The school are frightened and with good reason. The police are not going to offer them any protection - they are on their own.

Dimpliy · 03/12/2024 23:57

Bookgrrrl · 03/12/2024 23:27

Oh grow up, now you’re just being deliberately disingenuous.

Making threats against people is not free speech.

Forcing a school to close is not free speech.

Gathering in public when it was forbidden by COVID laws for people to do so (and those laws were wielded very heavily in many other contexts) is not free speech.

I’ve laid my case out very clearly and I’ve provided a police FOI to show I’m not spreading misinformation. You’re just a troll and I’m done engaging with you.

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Your FOI says the police didn’t make any arrests because their approach is to engage, explain, encourage and enforce and when that doesn’t work, THEN take enforcement action.

So their approach was working, unless you disbelieve the FOI you posted yourself.

You seem to view anyone who disagrees with you as a troll. So much for freedom of speech.