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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH dragged DS off the couch and onto the floor.

103 replies

Mincepiesformee · 02/12/2024 17:03

DS (8) is autistic (on the moderate to severe end) He is mostly a lovely, happy little boy but can pinch, scram and bite when over excited or overwhelmed. DH and I disagree on how best to deal with this. I move away as soon as he begins pinching or I distract him with bubbles or a song.
DS will refuse to move out of the way, says if we do that then it’s teaching DS that he can get away with these behaviours. Earlier DH was gaming when DS began to scram and pinch. I offered DH my seat but he refused to move away and the situation escalated, he ended up physically pushing him away then dragged DS by the arms off the sofa onto the floor. DS then had a huge meltdown which resulted in my sitting with him holding his head to prevent him head banging on the living room floor.
I told DH not to drag him off the sofa and just to move away, that’s what I do and DS loses interest and moves onto something else.
DH said I’m encouraging bad behaviour and not correcting DS.

OP posts:
onceisenoughinlife · 02/12/2024 20:19

Admittedly I don't have a SEN child but I can't see how saying "kind hands" is going to make a jot of difference. It doesn't with my NT children.

museumum · 02/12/2024 20:20

I don’t think your husband’s actions were right. At all. But I think his concerns are valid.
I think it’s very important you both get on the same page. I would research parenting autism classes and find one to do together either online or at a time when ds is at school or you can get respite care. Doing a course together will open up a space for you to agree strategies together as your dc moves into a stage of life where his behaviour could be a real physical threat if not managed better.

ChicaChow · 02/12/2024 20:23

Do you feel your DH is a risk to your son OP?

If you do then of course never leave them unsupervised together and make plans to leave him.

But if you don't and your DP is genuinely acting in a way that he feels best and not to cause intentional harm then you need to both find a middle ground here.

I'm a social worker in adults (specialise on safeguarding). So admittedly I only see the extreme cases but my social work role before was similar in adults.
It's manageable when they are young but once they hit puberty and become adult men it can be horrendous and sometimes fatal or near enough.

I've seen grown men in their thirties and forties absolutely batter their 75 year old parents. Broken arms, fractures, spinal injuries. All sorts.

You essentially have a toddler in a 6ft fully developed man's body towering over a 5.2ft middle aged woman.

So you and your husband need to look at as many techniques as possible for prevention.

Sometimes things do settle in terms of violence but often when puberty kicks in the violence ramps up.

You need as much support as possible to manage this now. Manage it as a team. You will need your husband's physical strength as your son gets older if he still has violent outbursts.

I understand many people's shock and horror on here reading your post. However I think it can be very difficult for people to comprehend the intense stress that parents go through with a severely autistic and violent child 24/7 with no respite. Being exhausted and sleep deprived, often stressed financially due to carer role, supervising essentially a toddler who cannot be left alone, whilst also being violently attacked daily. It's incredibly stressful and psrents at times can do things they wouldn't ever do if they were fully rested and parenting a neurotypical child.

I've known lovely, kind, gentle parents snap after being badly assaulted after a week of 5 hours sleep and locking their child in a room for several hours whilst the parents sob. I wouldn't then go into the home and remove the parent! They need support.

I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. You need to be kind to each other (him to you too). Your both navigating a difficult ship in high tides together.

Lastly.. your doing a great job x

Christmascrumbling · 02/12/2024 20:30

sprigatito · 02/12/2024 17:08

I expect to be flamed for hyperbole here, but I would ask DH to move out until he had spent some time learning about autism and the kind of parenting your autistic son needs. The National Autistic Society runs courses for parents, as do lots of other organisations, and there is no shortage of books and online resources. He has physically assaulted a disabled child. That's a "never event" and it needs to be treated as such.

I agree with this. I also have an autistic DS. It sounds like your husband was goading him.

TheTreeLightsAreFuckingMeOffNow · 02/12/2024 20:40

Cromwell1905 · 02/12/2024 19:53

Whilst I don’t support violence against children (though I don’t think this counts as violence) your husband is in a no win situation he is doing what he thinks is the right thing to do, I have previously posted about my daughter being attacked by a girl with autism at school and getting in trouble for punching her back. If a child is being violent then this needs to be stopped and I believe your husband has done what he thinks is a way of doing this, you feel moving out of the way and blowing bubbles is right. I don’t have experience of an autistic child so I don’t know but I am guessing both are wrong.

As for all the people suggesting your husband moves out etc they are idiots you know your son is not at risk from him and don’t really think your son’s life would be better without him there ?

I also agree with this. While it's against the grain, I agree.

Dramatic · 02/12/2024 20:40

People saying your DH is abusive are insane. He pulled him off a sofa because he was repeatedly scratching him, he didn't punch him or smack him, your ds wasn't hurt. Maybe your DH has got fed up of being a punching bag, I don't think I can blame him to be honest, it would majorly test most people's patience.

Tess150 · 02/12/2024 20:41

The thing is your DS may well be violent as a 15 year old or as an adult and that will be because he is moderately to severely autistic and extremely impulsive. You may well not be able to 'teach' the impulsiveness out of him no matter what approach you take.

You definitely will not change his aggressive behaviour by behaving violently towards him though. You would distract a 2 year old from their bad behaviour while telling them no - so your approach is IMO perfect OP. The people who are saying it's not, probably have absolutely zero understanding of ASD - it's a big problem on here IMO, people who have no experience or understanding of ASD giving advice on how to deal with it.

You husband has been abusive to your son who is an extremely vulnerable child. If he can't see this OP and continues to think violence is the right way to deal with this then you've got a major problem on your hands and need to consider the future of your relationship.

TheFormidableMrsC · 02/12/2024 20:42

sprigatito · 02/12/2024 17:08

I expect to be flamed for hyperbole here, but I would ask DH to move out until he had spent some time learning about autism and the kind of parenting your autistic son needs. The National Autistic Society runs courses for parents, as do lots of other organisations, and there is no shortage of books and online resources. He has physically assaulted a disabled child. That's a "never event" and it needs to be treated as such.

I 100% agree with this (ASD parent here).

Tiswa · 02/12/2024 20:45

For all those defending the DH sitting gaming is not an ideal thing to do in a joint space full stop

LoquaciousPineapple · 02/12/2024 20:46

If your DH is worried that your son will grow up to be violent and out of control, why is he teaching him that violence is the way to win a disagreement? The man is a fucking idiot, on top of being abusive.

The number of people on here saying "it's not good, but..." is actually appalling.

Playgroundincident · 02/12/2024 20:50

I wonder whether your husband just feels very over stimulated and and is struggling with being pinched, clawed at and bitten and he just dealt with it inappropriately? My son went through a phase when about 4 just smacking me in he face. I must admit I did lose my shirt at him. It was a one off and definitely told me that I needed to parent better but I was tired and fed up of constant assault. Only you can know OP but how many of us can safely we would never lose our rag in this situation.

Chocolattes · 02/12/2024 20:50

He has concerns that when DS is fully grown that he will still be attacking us and it won’t have been dealt with. That he could seriously injure us in a few years.

He is correct, however of course it's never acceptable to act like he did nor will it ever help. It sounds like you do need some further support though.

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/12/2024 21:00

Fordian · 02/12/2024 19:49

I'm pleased to see the classic MN response of LTB is getting less of an airing than it used to.

Like leaving the poor OP ALONE to deal with increasingly violent behaviour will help her in any way. With the strong possibility that her DH will discover the joy of no-aggro living, and not return. Not 'get educated' as some think will magically happen.

This family need a middle way.

I'm glad you said this tbh. I see these threads and think nope I'd be locking the door, not throwing DH out and my own life turning to a hell where I get bitten, scratched etc every day, only now as a single parent.

By all means get specialist help if you can OP but not the kind that tells you to embrace a life of being injured by a son who will soon be bigger than you.

Wonderi · 02/12/2024 21:01

Have you and your DH ever had any training in physically restraining him?

There will be times when he needs to be moved or restrained.

I think DH was wrong for how he did it but not what he did.

Moving him away is going to be something you will have to do as he gets bigger and stronger, it’s not always possible to quickly move 10+ other students who have autism or physical disabilities themselves.

We were taught how to physically restrain/move kids if they were a danger to themselves or others.

This was only ever used in an emergency but the training is important because it’s very easy to accidentally hurt someone, especially if you are frustrated too.
It also covers your back if he ever reported anything to the school.

I think it’s also important that you and your DH have a TV and games console in your bedroom and take in turns to have a break.

Having a ND child can be mentally and physically exhausting and it’s so important that you both have proper breaks to try and reduce these things from happening.

Wonderi · 02/12/2024 21:06

Christmascrumbling · 02/12/2024 20:30

I agree with this. I also have an autistic DS. It sounds like your husband was goading him.

Show quote history

How was the husband goading him?

I don’t agree with his actions of roughly dragging him from the sofa but I can’t see how him sitting on the sofa is goading him.

He is right that moving is giving in to DS and this is going to be incredibly difficult as DS gets older or when out in public.

stargazerlil · 02/12/2024 21:07

Not acceptable. Protocols must be put in place on how to deal with this in future, so situations like this can be managed before anyone resorts to spur of the moment manhandling of the child.
Get some help and advice from a support group that understand this.

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/12/2024 21:10

ChicaChow · 02/12/2024 20:23

Do you feel your DH is a risk to your son OP?

If you do then of course never leave them unsupervised together and make plans to leave him.

But if you don't and your DP is genuinely acting in a way that he feels best and not to cause intentional harm then you need to both find a middle ground here.

I'm a social worker in adults (specialise on safeguarding). So admittedly I only see the extreme cases but my social work role before was similar in adults.
It's manageable when they are young but once they hit puberty and become adult men it can be horrendous and sometimes fatal or near enough.

I've seen grown men in their thirties and forties absolutely batter their 75 year old parents. Broken arms, fractures, spinal injuries. All sorts.

You essentially have a toddler in a 6ft fully developed man's body towering over a 5.2ft middle aged woman.

So you and your husband need to look at as many techniques as possible for prevention.

Sometimes things do settle in terms of violence but often when puberty kicks in the violence ramps up.

You need as much support as possible to manage this now. Manage it as a team. You will need your husband's physical strength as your son gets older if he still has violent outbursts.

I understand many people's shock and horror on here reading your post. However I think it can be very difficult for people to comprehend the intense stress that parents go through with a severely autistic and violent child 24/7 with no respite. Being exhausted and sleep deprived, often stressed financially due to carer role, supervising essentially a toddler who cannot be left alone, whilst also being violently attacked daily. It's incredibly stressful and psrents at times can do things they wouldn't ever do if they were fully rested and parenting a neurotypical child.

I've known lovely, kind, gentle parents snap after being badly assaulted after a week of 5 hours sleep and locking their child in a room for several hours whilst the parents sob. I wouldn't then go into the home and remove the parent! They need support.

I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. You need to be kind to each other (him to you too). Your both navigating a difficult ship in high tides together.

Lastly.. your doing a great job x

Another really important post. I'm tired of seeing posts on MN where mothers / parents are expected to be human punchbags for their 6 foot autistic sons. Why is no one talking honestly about how dangerous some of these men are? Or how at risk they ultimately are if they truly can't regulate.

It's amazing how many of these autistic men can't 'self-regulate' around mum / dad / siblings but magically develop the ability to self-regulate around large, scary men in the street / pub who will beat the shit out of them, rather than blowing bubbles. You and your DH need to find a middle way OP but your DH sounds like a man needing new strategies not a bloody abuser.

afrikat · 02/12/2024 21:10

Your husband needs to educate himself on parenting, particularly a severely Autistic child. I'd be asking him to leave until he has done this. What he did was physical abuse of a very vulnerable child and I'd struggle to get over that

strawberrysea · 02/12/2024 21:11

I'm 28 and autistic and I still distinctly remember my dad dragging me out of the house by my hair when I was a child when I was having a meltdown. It really, really affected how I saw him and still does to this day.

What your DH did is not as extreme but he definitely needs to learn better coping strategies before it escalates further.

Living with someone with ASD can be so, so hard and so you both have my sympathies. I appreciate that my behaviour must've been incredibly difficult for my parents to deal with.

Ottersmith · 02/12/2024 21:27

sprigatito · 02/12/2024 17:08

I expect to be flamed for hyperbole here, but I would ask DH to move out until he had spent some time learning about autism and the kind of parenting your autistic son needs. The National Autistic Society runs courses for parents, as do lots of other organisations, and there is no shortage of books and online resources. He has physically assaulted a disabled child. That's a "never event" and it needs to be treated as such.

Yes this nails it. Who is monitoring your husband's 'bad behaviour'? He's a grown man.

Ottersmith · 02/12/2024 21:32

Your husband is never going to help the situation. If your son is still hitting at 15 it will be your husband's fault. Are you going to leave him? He shouldn't be around your son because he can't cope.

Christmascrumbling · 02/12/2024 21:33

Wonderi · 02/12/2024 21:06

How was the husband goading him?

I don’t agree with his actions of roughly dragging him from the sofa but I can’t see how him sitting on the sofa is goading him.

He is right that moving is giving in to DS and this is going to be incredibly difficult as DS gets older or when out in public.

Show quote history

Because he refused to move, knowing what the outcome would be. The when he got his desired outcome, he chose to drag the child, causing an autistic meltdown, he then walked away leaving the child to harm himself. The behaviour is incredibly difficult, but that doesn't mean the DS can control it.

Dramatic · 02/12/2024 22:19

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/12/2024 21:10

Another really important post. I'm tired of seeing posts on MN where mothers / parents are expected to be human punchbags for their 6 foot autistic sons. Why is no one talking honestly about how dangerous some of these men are? Or how at risk they ultimately are if they truly can't regulate.

It's amazing how many of these autistic men can't 'self-regulate' around mum / dad / siblings but magically develop the ability to self-regulate around large, scary men in the street / pub who will beat the shit out of them, rather than blowing bubbles. You and your DH need to find a middle way OP but your DH sounds like a man needing new strategies not a bloody abuser.

Show quote history

Exactly this, he is not an abuser at all, he moved a child away after being repeatedly physically attacked, yes he can learn better strategies but he's not an abuser in any sense of the word. He sounds like he is despairing about what the future will be like and is desperate for a way to stop this

Tiswa · 02/12/2024 23:12

Dramatic · 02/12/2024 22:19

Exactly this, he is not an abuser at all, he moved a child away after being repeatedly physically attacked, yes he can learn better strategies but he's not an abuser in any sense of the word. He sounds like he is despairing about what the future will be like and is desperate for a way to stop this

Show quote history

I think in some instances you are right but there are others that you arent and this is one

the OP makes it very clear that he is mentally a toddler in an 8 year old body who is only going to get bigger. He is no more going to be able to control himself as he gets older around adults than a toddler

The gaming and refusing to recognise the triggers and handle it at that stage is the issue - and for this they both need help - help that is probably seriously lacking but needs to start

ImAnAutum · 02/12/2024 23:18

Honestly, some of these replies don't even get me angry anymore, they just make me so sad. OP you would probably get better advice from people with at least a vague idea of what they are talking about on the special needs board. Any adult who agrees with the FH behaviour here clearly has absolutely no idea about an autistic brain/child/behaviour and if you think you do, I can assure you, you are completely wrong and need to educate yourself.