DH dragged DS off the couch and onto the floor.

[Mincepiesformee]

DS (8) is autistic (on the moderate to severe end) He is mostly a lovely, happy little boy but can pinch, scram and bite when over excited or overwhelmed. DH and I disagree on how best to deal with this. I move away as soon as he begins pinching or I distract him with bubbles or a song.
DS will refuse to move out of the way, says if we do that then it’s teaching DS that he can get away with these behaviours. Earlier DH was gaming when DS began to scram and pinch. I offered DH my seat but he refused to move away and the situation escalated, he ended up physically pushing him away then dragged DS by the arms off the sofa onto the floor. DS then had a huge meltdown which resulted in my sitting with him holding his head to prevent him head banging on the living room floor.
I told DH not to drag him off the sofa and just to move away, that’s what I do and DS loses interest and moves onto something else.
DH said I’m encouraging bad behaviour and not correcting DS.

Obviously he wasn't right to drag your son from the sofa, but I agree with your DH that your son needs to be taught it's wrong. By moving away you might be stopping the behaviour in that moment but you're not stopping it long term. You're not doing your son any favours by enabling his behaviour. You said he is more at the level of a toddler but 2 year olds know not to pinch or scratch.

When a rigid child meets a rigid adult... it's a disaster waiting to happen. In that moment your ds is literally unable to change his behaviour or even hear any words of admonishing or redirection. Your h needs to understand this and educate himself on it. It's not about being right it's about the most suitable approach for the child you have. Preventing hurt and waiting it out is not letting him 'get away with it' (he's hardly enjoying himself!), it is de-escalating a stressful event for all. Teaching can't take place during disregulation so your dh is only going to make the situation worse for everyone and his own BP higher. Will be take this on board OP? You need a partner in this, not another person to look after.

Well, at least you can take hope from the fact that it can be handled. It would be worse if nothing would help.

its very difficult to say what he will be like when he’s 15 but it’s a huge concern that we won’t be able to physically manage him especially as I’m tiny myself. I agree and from my husbands point of view he wants the behaviours stopped before we get to a point when we cannot cope.

Same. This is absolutely not acceptable behaviour from your H. He needs training, exposure to experts who can teach him how to parent. He also needs to get the fuck out of the family home in the short - and potentially long term.
Protect your DS from this abusive cunt.

This is why your DH desperately needs autism-informed parenting classes, because although he is right that your son could seriously harm someone if his behaviour isn't controlled, he needs to get two unassailable facts into his head:

1. using physical coercion, threats, traditional parenting strategies, shaming etc will not help and will only result in everyone being miserable.

2. however great the provocation, however poor the behaviour, however angry and disrespected he feels, he can never use violence. Ever.

There are techniques for managing behaviour in severely autistic children, but you have to be proactive and learn them. He needs to accept that he's crossed a line and take responsibility for acquiring the skills to do better.

You harvest what you plant.

Treat him with force to exhort the behaviour you want and that's what you'll get back later.

Treat him with patience and understanding and direct him thoughtfully away from what you don't want towards what you do and he'll develop that way (as far as he's able).

You can't 'nip this in the bud' with force... His behaviour is an expression of who he is, what he understands and how he feels.... It will get better with maturity but you need to see the world through his eyes and manage him as calmly as possible or he will learn by force is the way.

This will bring about the very outcome you want to avoid!

I think you are being unfair to your DH. He is concerned about YOU. Your son will get physically bigger and you will be in danger when your son is stronger/bigger than you. Both of you need to work out a strategy that helps your son learn that such behaviour is completely unacceptable. Dragging your son from the sofa was not the best thing to do but I feel there is a lot of middle ground between the techniques you are each employing right now. Criticising your DH in front of your son was not great. You both have to come up with a united front and discuss issues away from your son. I feel that you are currently only confusing your son greatly by your contrasting stances.

I mean, I can see both sides. He will be difficult to control as he gets older and could seriously harm you or your husband and absolutely should not be allowed to get away with it, however dragging him by the arms is massively inappropriate.

Ok, that was important to understand.

I do think dh has a point in thinking that DS does need to have a long term aim of understanding that scratching, kicking and pinching is not on. However obviously disagree with the way he is going about it.

He wants DS to self regulate in the face of he (DH) ignoring the escalating behaviours? And ignoring the need DS is trying to express? But today that didn't work for either of them. DH ended up getting dysregulated and frustrated as well. That's unhelpful. DS needs co-regulation at the minute once he has started to use these sorts of acts with others. Use predictable language, ideally same at home and school. "Pinching is finished. No pinching. It hurts me." Use when/then constructions "when you have calm hands, then I will help you"

On the other hand, bubbles and singing shouldn't really follow behaviour that is tricky to manage or it can accidentally become a reinforcer in itself (I want bubbles and singing with mummy; the way to get that is to pinch a few people).

Best thing is to head this kind of behaviour off at the pass by analysing where and when it happens. For example, was DS seeking connection with DH and getting ignored because he was gaming? Where did it go wrong? Could DH have put the controller down when DS gave early warning signs and headed the whole situation off by interacting with him at that moment? Was DS hungry? Bored? Can he choose from cue cards for example? Can he learn to ask for help? And then what he needs help with via cueing? You need help, DS? What help? Help with watching TV? Help with getting food? You might be able to have pictures home and school that you use in each space that might support communication.

Try to work out with DH what DS's early "tells" are that he is heading towards losing it. Agree that you will work together on a plan to head DS off by responding as consistently as you possibly can to the early tells and therefore preventing the pinching, scratching. This is a kind of middle path - you are working towards a change for DS, but not at a level beyond his ability to regulate (DH's current plan) and not just distracting him (your current plan) but something that attempts to analyze where and when the risks arise, and what that behaviour is expressing, and what DS really needs when he gets like that, and how he might communicate that instead.

Honestly I feel sorry for all of you in this situation. Dealing with an aggressive child must be totally exhausting and wearing for both of ye and of course it's incredible difficult for him as well.
I think you both need professional advice on how to manage this type of behaviour .1) dragging him on to floor certainly isn't it but neither is just moving out his way: ( may not always be possible and your dh is right he could end up badly hurting someone .

But does he understand that force won't stop it?

I would say your DH’s behaviour was out of order even if your son wasn’t autistic.

May I please ask though, as I don’t know much about this topic, was compels some children/people with autism to harm others? Is it a lack of self control? What usually triggers him to do it or is it completely random?
Please forgive my ignorance

There’s to much going on here for strangers on the internet to offer their opinion on this extremely stressful situation. Would DH and yourself engage on a parenting course for children with ASD?

Sometimes it's an expression of frustration or anxiety, often because autistic people struggle to identify and understand their own emotions, especially if they aren't verbal. Sometimes it's sensory-seeking behaviour - they like the feeling of pinching skin and don't understand that it hurts, or they enjoy the stimulation provided by the other person's reaction - again, often with little understanding of what that reaction actually means. The solutions are as varied as the reasons. My ds went through a biting phase, which was massively improved by giving him a special box full of fabric scraps and other textures he could chew when he felt discombobulated.

DH is right. You're enabling DSs behavior by simply moving out of the way and giving him what he wants - he might be understanding you but he's clearly not listening when you're telling him no.

Now he knows that scratching and pinching will get him what he wants.

I agree. What happens if he does this to someone else out of the family? No one else is going to blow bubbles or sing a song..

He still needs to be taught right from wrong.

I am Audhd myself so I know conventional parenting doesn't work, but it doesn't mean you reward pinching someone with bubbles and a song.

When you say dragging off the sofa what exactly do you mean? Because I've physically moved/lifted my children if they were hurting or being dangerous. If he was moving DS away from the situation (i.e away from hurting someone) then I don't think he is necessarily in the wrong.

This is my concern. When he's older pinching or scratching the wrong person can get him attacked. They won't care he is autistic. You won't always be there to sing or blow bubbles. That does not mean I side with your oh. I think you both need to sit with a specialist and get some new techniques.

Your DH needs some specialist training and acceptance of what it means because you cannot use force or ignore

Your H makes a valid and relevant point though the method was wrong. I do sympathise with both of you, it sounds tough and scary and no doubt puts a strain on your marriage. Try and talk about it together when it’s calmer and agree a strategy.

I work with Autistic people and this is 100% correct. The people who seem to believe that you need to use force and scare tactics haven't got a clue. That kind of approach only makes things worse.

I don't think anyone will respond condoning your DH's response, but this is a fair concern. Maybe this needs to be the catalyst for a broader review between the two of you about how you tackle his behaviour. I think your H has a legitimate point that by just moving away, you are redirecting but not really teaching him that the behaviour is unacceptable, so I would encourage you to be a bit open minded to his POV as well.

He physically dragged him off the couch by his arms (DS lying down), head first, upside down then DS landed roughly on the living room floor.

Does your DH think you can discipline the autism out of him?? Honestly I agree with the pp, unless he is willing to learn more about the disability HIS OWN CHILD had and how to manage it then you need to separate them. And honestly I would be documenting/reporting everything possible in preparation to restricting his access.
His attitude is totally wrong except in the part where he says if you don't make a change it will go badly as he gets older. It will and you do, but the thing that needs to change is your DH.