DH's behaviour in social situs.

[ThatLoudTealZebra]

Hello all,

Half of me thinks IABU, half of me has a few bells ringing. Sorry it's long...

Back story, married for 6months, been together 5years. DH struggles to make friends, but has made a few through sports clubs etc over the last 18months. When we first got together he wasn't honest about a few ex relationships, and was very defensive about his online behaviour as basically felt a bit ashamed of being a bit "desperate" at low times in his life. Was fine, worked through it.

Now the last week we have had some social get togethers. One on Friday was a sports club party. A lot of our mutual friends were there so it was chance to have a good get together and a few drinks. I wasn't drinking much and kept pretty low key just catching up with people.

Halfway through the night he disappears from the main room, and one of our friends asked where he was. I was chatting elsewhere so didn't take much notice. It then became apparent he was outside with a group of young women on his own, and had been buying them shots and drinks. I went out to say hi and to check in, realised they were all quite drunk and left them to it.

We moved onto a bar(it was quite late by then) and said I was going to go home. He said it was fine for me to go and leave him there and make my own way home on my own. The only people left out now was this group he'd been outside with and a couple of guys he doesn't speak to. I stood and talked to the guys for a few mins, and they all said they were leaving soon, which I mentioned to DH and said we should probably make a move too (it was around 1am). He was swapping social media details with the girls at this point.

On the way home, he became very OTT of "you didn't mind me talking to them did you, I had my wedding ring on, you're my wife" etc etc. I was a bit bemused by it all but left him with it as he was drunk.

The next day I asked him who he'd been chatting to and he said he couldn't remember their names. I said he'd added them on SM (he was next to me when he did it) and got "oh, you've been stalking me have you". I told him he was being unreasonable with that comment, and he apologised.

Now after that reaction and the general "overreaction" on the way home, I can't stop thinking about the whole evening. He basically cold shouldered his friends in favour of this new crowd, and his immediate defence reaction when I mentioned SM has just left me feeling it's all a bit pathetic, and it's given me the ick. AIBU?

Thanks all, appreciate the input.

The girls were in the group we were out with, I think he was outside with them as they were the "fun lively" group he wanted to be part of after he got pulled into a conversation when we were all in one room. They were about 10 years younger, he's late 30's. Genuinely him chatting to them isn't the issue. It's the lack of engagement/low level gaslighting afterwards which has annoyed me the most, and this post has helped me identify that, so thank you.

I think the point about it basically being an immature thing is right. We had a talk last night and we were both very honest and it seems to have opened a few topics which need dealing with. Onwards...!

OP, do not rush into havjng a child with such a man.
Self esteem issues that manifest in him chasing the attention of young women will turn your stomach.

Nothing will excuse it.
You will not want to socialise with him as you will be mortified to be with him.

These men are easily spotted and the women with them pitied.

You deserve so much better than this.
Remember that.
Better to throw him back, married or not.

@Electricalb I'll be honest I have been holding off trying for children with him since getting married, and have had a few vague ideas why I felt like that.

I have told him he needs to show me he wants to work on himself before we consider having kids (he is keener than me at the moment to TTC and I am the higher earner by a long way). I won't have those issues passed on to children.

Don't get me wrong, he is a truly lovely guy and has been my absolute rock through our relationship. However the self esteem/immaturity does raise it's head every now and again (normally in disputes) and reminds me there is a lot still to work on together.

He sounds like a sleazy desperate loser.

@ThatLoudTealZebra I wish you all the best - hopefully if he is able to reflect and engage with therapy his self esteem and boundaries will improve. You sound like a sensible women - presumably he has lots of good qualities which is why you married him. I think you are wise on holding off TTC until there has been a prolonged period with no such incidents.

OP, honestly don't do it.
You deserve so much better than him.
Sleazy creepy men are the absolute worst as they age.
I have known a few, all with lovely but mortified to their core wives.

The love will evaporate, replaced by repulsion.
Bullet proof your contraception.

I think the posters calling the OPs husband sleazy/creepy etc are being a bit insulting to the OP and infantilising - the OP comes across as a level-headed woman, she has been with this man for 5 years and there must be reasons why she chose to marry him.

Also low self esteem can absolutely present this way in men, without there being an underlying sexual element. I have worked with men like this. As I have said in another post, this type of behaviour suggests to me an underlying developmental immaturity - often when certain milestones are not reached when society dictates they should be e.g first relationship, first sexual experience, etc. This can contribute to low self esteem and poor social skills, where the person seeks external validation, often wanting to be the comedian in the room, buying all the drinks and desperate to be liked. It is not about the person doing the validating - it is about the validation itself and feeling liked/accepted/part of a group.

This does not excuse his behaviour though, I would find this unacceptable and particularly his immature response afterwards, taking little responsibility and not considering his wife’s feelings. It is up to the OP if she wants to understand this and move forwards. I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘he’s a sleaze, LTB’. There’s a lot of projection going on IMO.

He couldn't even control himself whilst you were around. Imagine what he does when you're not there! This is the sleaziest thing I've heard someone doing infront of their wife. I would have made my own way home, as he suggested, and changed the locks too.

Appreciate everyone's responses, even if some demonstrate they don't trust their SO to be socialising with a certain demographic!

It 100% wasn't sexual thing with the group he was with. It could of just easily been a group of men, what was attractive to him was the noisier, more juvenile, back slapping behaviour. Doing shots etc which his older friends weren't participating in. Not great but it's not a "sleaze" thing.

He got pulled into a convo with them earlier in the evening and it went from there as it got noisier/more OTT.

The defensive and immature behaviour afterwards is what rattled my cage more, and we're discussing that now in steps. There are a few things he has bought up which although I don't agree with necessarily, I do understand his headspace a bit more, how he has got there and why there was distance between us.

@Plastictrees is 100% on the money and that has been hugely helpful, thank you. It doesn't excuse his behaviour but it really is the nail on the head. We've both got some work to do and this has bought a few things to light which give us a good starting point.

You seem to have a good handle and understanding of this OP

Your paragraph starting ‘pulled into a convo’ suggests he is easily led abs I wouldn’t find this attractive in a partner

i can relate to the low self esteem thing in a partner as I was like this as a child due yo my abusive mum and it caused me to act OTT in an attempt to get social acceptance and validation from others

my ex was a bit like this - seemed extrovert and social /confident on one hand but showed signs of being easily led, immature, naive and had low self esteem on t’other

@Jumell thank you. It is his least attractive trait agreed!

I can count on one hand though the amount of times it's happened since we've been together. I'd hate for him to think he can't have conversations/be silly with others in a an environment where everyone does have a connection (through the same sporting club in this case) with/is likely to see again in the near future.

It's just defining the "it's fine, but our "team" is front and central over everything else" which is what got lost here and can be a more common theme than is ideal for sure, but still not a regular occurrence.

This has shown I was definitely being perfectly reasonable with my annoyance though, and actually he gets a pretty easy ride by the sounds of things...!

Yeah I think you’re spot on with your observation in paragraph 3!

@ThatLoudTealZebra

You have a great perspective on this. I think unless you know someone who does have this level of social awkwardness it's difficult to get past the sleazy aspect of it. If it had been a group of lads (and I do know he would have been exactly the same if it had have been) then your answers from a lot of people would have been totally different. How is he in other areas does his misread things there. For example the person I know like this , if you were to say that's a nice jumper you have on he would instantly think people didn't like the jumpers he had been previously wearing, go out and buy the jumper that had been complimented in every available colour and only wear them for the next however many months. It must be very frustrating to live with and not something you want passing on to children.

@sweeneytoddsrazor he's not that pronounced, no. However if someone does compliment him on something/he likes something, he will buy a lot of the same thing as it feels safe and familiar.

His initial instinct is to believe things are "his fault" or look for fault in things over anything else. It has improved, but still flares up at times of pressure and can be exhausting though. It is the fact that things still do flare up at difficult times which suggests we're not ready for children. He had a very difficult upbringing, and was very anti having children, but that changed early on in our relationship.

He sounds like an autistic man.

I say that as an autistic woman who knows and has always been friends with various autistic men. Some can sometimes come across as creepy or a bit “off” because they tend to lack social skills and can’t always read social situations like neurotypical people.

I’ll eat my hat if that’s not what’s happening here.

Not sure about autism but he does sound like someone who had a childhood where pretty much anything that happened he was on the butt end of it and it was probably his fault or rather it wasn't but he was blamed or felt he was to blame for it.

Much of what the OP describes is low self esteem, he struggles to initiate but obliges well when someone else does, worrying about fitting in, some people pleasing behaviour etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if he was so involved in the conversation and enjoying attention from others that he sort of forgot the OP for a short while and when she turned up he felt he would be told off (childhood issue) felt bad about enjoying himself and lashed out blaming her but actually he was more cross with himself and worried the OP wouldn't love him because there is a bit of self protection behaviour in that reaction. It's absolutely not an excuse, he can sort that out but it does take time to recognise your own behaviour and how to challenge yourself.

Low self esteem is a reason some people have affairs but it doesn't sound like he is at that stage or that it was what he was doing on the night.

@MarkingBad yes and I don't think he's not self aware enough in times of stress to realise what direction his annoyance/frustration is aimed at really. He also suffers with disassociation on occasions. Your observations are also very interesting, thanks!

On the way home, he became very OTT of "you didn't mind me talking to them did you, I had my wedding ring on, you're my wife" etc etc. I was a bit bemused by it all but left him with it as he was drunk.

It was this that struck me.

It is as though he suddenly realised how it must have looked to you. His brain went Oh Shit and rather than straight into down playing/gaslighting like the experienced cheaters do, he sought your opinion on the situation to gauge how you might react.

I don't know how you responded but it looked like he didnt get an OK from you so was trying to reassure you and please you by focussing his responses on you and your relationship.

You don't need to answer this but was there a reason why you were both so far apart and not knowing where each other were, roundabouts? Obviously you can't be on an invisible chain or joined at the hip but many couples do have a reasonable idea of where their partner is or at least might be and with whom. Or had you just naturally drifted off and were engaged in other conversations?

The next day I asked him who he'd been chatting to and he said he couldn't remember their names. I said he'd added them on SM (he was next to me when he did it) and got "oh, you've been stalking me have you". I told him he was being unreasonable with that comment, and he apologised.

And this one because the guilt had set in by the morning and he was worrying, hence the self protection from emotional hurt by laying it at your door.

You were right in your reaction to that, he was being unreasonable, his sudden apology shows he knew that. It also shows he might just want you to be pleased with him, which is a little worrying.

While I don't think from what you said that he would have been looking for hook up with the women he was talking to, it only takes one who is more forward to start flirtng/touching and a people pleaser can very quickly find themselves in a lot of hot water and some strange reactions can ensue. It's worth working on this people pleasing aspect if this is him.

You seem to be a very level headed, sensible woman and you don't have to answer this but would couples councilling help, for example does he need a little more reassurance and also, do you?

@MarkingBad I am not sure couples counselling is warranted here. The OP’s husband clearly has long standing issues with his self esteem, which is best addressed in his own individual therapy. It is his issue to address and he needs to take ownership of this. There is such a pressure and expectation of women to need to ‘fix’ and ‘help’ men, often to the detriment of themselves. Nothing the OP has written suggests to me that she would benefit in any way from couples counselling. She has already been very patient, accepting and tolerant of her husbands struggles and I’m unsure how helpful it is to burden her with the responsibility to help resolve his issues in therapy.

Which is why I asked if it would help.

I agree that the OP has been very patient and level headed. As you will know sometimes it is useful for a partner to join in later stages of therapy when there are detrimental issues that affect both parties.

I didn't make that clear for which I apologise unreservedly to the OP

I know a guy like this who was a massive sleaze. He cheated on his gf quite a bit, but mainly it was just flirting and for attention/he wanted women to fancy him. And would do everything to make sure his wife didn't find out. It was a bit pathetic

He was also very socially insecure, I knew him very well, and the comments around 'you don't mind do you' etc that OP's partner said, remind me of him. He basically wanted his partner to be upset by it, for some bizarre reason, but also was horrified when it went too far and did everything to stop her finding out about the actual cheating

Some very interesting posts latterly including yours OP.
It does indeed read that it could be spectrum behaviours that can be view as both socially awkward and intense.

Autism is strongly genetic OP, so prepare yourself for that.

My husband has definite traits that I only identified years after having two autistic children.

Read up on it and educate yourself before you commit to a family.
My husband is a much milder form than my children.

Thanks all.

@MarkingBad We discussed about him going for counselling again and he was reluctant as before it's always been a very negative time for him, but I think he sees the benefit.

The responses have been helpful on the whole, as it's enabled me to discuss with him what I felt was going on with a bit more reflection, so thank you.

As a side note, he didn't remember saying I should go home and he was horrified when I mentioned he'd said it, as this really isn't his typical behaviour (which was partly why it flagged at me a bit).

In regards to knowing where he was on the evening, we're not like that as a couple. It was a club get together, so there were a lot of people and groups we both know and spend time with separately as we train at different times, and this is the same on a night out. He does typically stick with a certain group though which is what was unusual on this evening.

In regards to knowing where he was on the evening, we're not like that as a couple. It was a club get together, so there were a lot of people and groups we both know and spend time with separately as we train at different times, and this is the same on a night out. He does typically stick with a certain group though which is what was unusual on this evening.

That makes sense when you have different groups of friends at the same event.