Assisted Dying

[Nordione1]

I dont know what section to put this in. Im more upset about the vote for it than I thought I'd be. I feel like we have crossed a rubicon somehow.

The circumstances of the referenced suicide bear zero relation to the prerequisites for being prescribed a lethal medication under the requirements of the bill. Clear enough now?

The proxy is there if someone cannot sign for themselves eg if they are illiterate or cannot physically hold a pen. But the person would still have to have capacity, be terminally ill and meet all the other criteria including expressing a repeated wish to end their life to two doctors and the judge without coercion. Having a proxy for other purposes does not mean they could automatically sign for someone to die under this legislation.

Same here.

@MrsPeregrine

plenty of people with terminal illness do want assisted dying though. So why shouldn’t they be able to have it?? It’s their right. It’s their body, their right. End of.

as I have said before, this argument was made against legalising abortion without medical need and also use of the morning after pill.

Re read and my apologies, Thanks for the medical help, a lot of sleepless nights but empathy never goes amiss.

Me too. I listened to the result live and my heart sank...

Absolutely. People cited examples of women who are 39 weeks pregnant suddenly “changing their mind” and being able to access abortion for no reason other than a desire to have one. It has never happened.

It's all because of religion, hiding behind a veil of ironic concern for people being coerced.

Yet it's fine for them to coerce terminally ill people into prolonging their suffering against their will, because of their beliefs.

It's not ending life, but shortening a potentially miserable death.

I'm very pleased with today's result.

That’s hugely overdramatic. It’s only been 60 years in all of history that the state hasn’t put people to death for criminal offences. We start and join in wars where our army kills thousands. But apparently letting people who would otherwise suffer awful pain and loss of dignity choose to die if they want to is so wrong.

The public were assured when abortion came in it would be very rare. Indeed it was 25k pa just after legalisation. It is now at record levels (quarter of a million last year). So the people worried were proved right.

When the legislation came in against assisted dying, over 90% of the Country was Christian.

It's no surprise people want it removed now the veil of religion has been lifted for so many.

Imagine the amount of people that wouldn't have been coerced into suffering at the end of their life if this legislation hadn't been brought in over 60 years ago.

Well as I say to people who wail about the abortion figures being unacceptably high - if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one.

And if you don’t like assisted suicide that has to be accompanied by a medical diagnosis and be approved by a judge, don’t have it.

People are very naive if they think it is not a slippery slope. There will be court cases where people will say its against their human rights to allow assisted suicide in some cases and not others and the govt will end up like the Netherlands killing depressed teenagers and disabled toddlers. The poster is right that it's a dark day and anyone who doesn't think it's about the state saving money on expensive medical care and pensions has got it wrong.

Palliative care doesn't always work well.

I had a relative who was a serious heroin (and everything else) user 30 years ago. He was clean for those years but then developed cancer.

Morphine and normal pain control didn't help at all. The poor man died in absolute agony in front of his poor mum with an awful grimace fixed on his face. No Mother should ever have to witness her child in such agony.

He'd have given anything to take an easier path, and I'm absolutely sure his mum would too.

I cannot understand how anyone who has children or any loved one opposes an easier and painless death for their child or beloved when death is totally knocking at the door.

If you can imagine being in front of them at their bedside - how can you bear opposing mercy?

I understand the mixed emotions but I personally think it's a step in the right direction. Probably a lot older than many MN posters and not sure if it's relevant but have seen family and friends through the end. My own DM, 86 yrs although frail, not ill and independent atm has asked about assisted dying should she develop dementia or if she decides she can not cope with pain, she has registered with Dignitas and has DNR registered with GP. Having seen friends and family at the end of life, this is her request. We want to have choices over our health care during our life so for me this is a continuation of that choice. Yes, we need the strict protocols and ideally better palliative care, although we all know that's dependent on what's available in your postcode as is all of healthcare from birth to death.

That is such a lame argument (and predictable). To anyone dismayed by abortion or assisted dying particularly for religious reasons that is like saying well you don't approve of murder so don't do it.

but thats their religion and not mine.

Yes I can imagine they would feel that way. However, if they choose to seek the legal right to do it, I doubt they would actually then be forced to do it if they change their minds further down the line. Surely it would just mean that the option is there, they can take it or not.

There’s no reason to think that will happen and it’s picking rare cases from other jurisdictions and also misrepresenting the facts. I don’t think any country allows toddlers to be euthanised (other than withdrawing treatment, which we have always allowed in this country too). As for depressed teens, there are actually some mental health conditions that are genuinely unbearable for the sufferer and where there is little prospect of improvement so it’s trivialising it to suggest people just do it on a whim. Anyway under this bill, that wouldn’t be possible anyway so it needs a terminal diagnosis. I trust the judges in this country to ensure that it’s used in the way intended.

My main concern is that it doesn't go anywhere near far enough. People should have more options about how to end their life.

How far do you think it should go?

The Dutch didn't permit euthanasia for Noa Pothoven.
Showing a callous disregard for facts only weakens the poor argument you're attempting.

You could pour baby oil all over Mount Everest and it would still be better than coercing people into suffering against their will at the end of their life because of religious beliefs.