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To be shocked at the net migration figures currently being discussed

1000 replies

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 11:06

Yesterday’s figures discussed by the Tories stated that since 2010 the net migration figures to the UK has equalled the size of the population of Wales. Today we were told the figures to June 2023 showed a net migration figure of nearly 1 million for that year, for the year to June 2024 this had reduced to a mere 3/4 of a million. The numbers coming in of the boats per year alone is equal to a large town. AIBU to think this has to stop. We need to immediately crack down on people allowed into this country- limit it to urgently needed highly skilled jobs and start offshore processing (or similar) of the people who are here illegally (basically like many other countries).

We just can’t cope with those numbers. - no wonder our infrastructure is collapsing, we have a housing crisis etc.

I want to hear from the government how they are going to tackle it. We have heard from the Tories now it is over to Starmer.

OP posts:
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21
inamarina · 28/11/2024 14:06

Vinni8 · 28/11/2024 13:51

I don't have strong feelings about immigration, but I'm always amused by statements like this.

Yes, it may surprise you to know that many of us know plenty of people who not only WOULD do those jobs, but actually do currently do them.

I can only assume people who say such things have very limited life experience and/or are very sheltered

I do wonder where all the vacancies in hospitality are. I know several college students in our area who really struggle to find jobs in hospitality or retail.

Cockwomblers · 28/11/2024 14:06

HarrietBond · 28/11/2024 13:54

I wish the media would show (or the government would provide) more context to these figures. Eg how many people entered on each type of visa? That would immediately help people understand more about what’s happening.

Also workforce figures - in particular how many people retire each year? How many jobs are vacant in key industries? Our population will keep growing as our elderly population does as we need more new people to keep things on the road.

Unskilled migrants are not a major part of our immigration. We don’t offer them visas.

Tonnes and tonnes on scam style student visas for fake universities (see them all over London and Birmingham) then they just abscond or get right to remain

loads of dependents visas for wives and children (lots of overseas arranged marriages)

cakeorwine · 28/11/2024 14:07

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 14:03

Yes sure. On average we are recording 30-40,000 people crossing on boats each year, we are apparently recording about half of those actually crossing illegally so say 75000. Net migration is about 750,000 so 10%

Where have you got the 80,000 number from? (about half)

1apenny2apenny · 28/11/2024 14:08

Agree with @HarrietBond, we just don't get sufficient breakdown of the figures.

When we talk about people leaving - that's almost certainly students returning and pretty highly skilled educated brits who are hard to replace and pay a lot of tax.

As regards those coming on boats I'd like to see data on males vs females, how many speak English to a standard ie can understand and be understood, how many with no papers, how many able to show their education level, how many actually have family here - where are they and can they house/support the person.

As regards those on skill visas - what is their education level, can they support themselves, have they passed medicals.

We now have a load of people who don't work - many who are young claiming benefits for health reasons. Evidently we need to import more people, who let's face it won't be better contributors, to do these jobs. Many jobs are low paid so we have ti pay to house these people. What happens when they decide they also don't want to do those jobs? They'll go on benefits? We cannot continue to import labour because the indigenous population is too sick, lazy etc. Work needs to be paid better and people need to understand the benefits of working to their mental health.

Just because we've 'always welcomed immigrants' doesn't mean it needs to continue.

Fluufer · 28/11/2024 14:08

Cockwomblers · 28/11/2024 14:06

Tonnes and tonnes on scam style student visas for fake universities (see them all over London and Birmingham) then they just abscond or get right to remain

loads of dependents visas for wives and children (lots of overseas arranged marriages)

That categorically isn't happening. It would not be possible to "scam a student visa for a fake university"

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 14:09

MoMhathair · 28/11/2024 13:27

If we get as much people as we can now and ride out the pain of managing it, we will benefit later on. Population across the western world is collapsing. We can't make people unwelcome now and then beg them to come later on - it won't work.

But we can’t manage their integration into British society at this rate. Maybe we need to ride out the storm of supporting the boom generations, then things will even out

OP posts:
HarrietBond · 28/11/2024 14:10

Student visa : Overview - GOV.UK

These are the rules for Student Visas. Claims are usually scrutinised quite closely - it's hard to see how 'fake' universities are fooling people. There's also a requirement for dependents to have access to funds to support themselves.

'Tonnes and tonnes' of people getting around the rules doesn't seem likely.

Student visa

Apply for a Student visa to study in the UK if you're 16 or over - eligibility, extend or switch your visa, how much it costs and how long it takes

https://www.gov.uk/student-visa

Cockwomblers · 28/11/2024 14:11

HarrietBond · 28/11/2024 14:10

Student visa : Overview - GOV.UK

These are the rules for Student Visas. Claims are usually scrutinised quite closely - it's hard to see how 'fake' universities are fooling people. There's also a requirement for dependents to have access to funds to support themselves.

'Tonnes and tonnes' of people getting around the rules doesn't seem likely.

I wish i lived in your idealist world haha

Zebedee999 · 28/11/2024 14:13

29% think you are unreasonabl eto think this has to stop! Wow! No amount of house building can handle a million new residents in a year.

I bet that 29% are the same people complaining that rents are going up, NHS queues, class sizes etc.

Immigration needs to be tailored to the countries needs not a free for all.

Bagpussnotbothered · 28/11/2024 14:15

How much immigration do we really need? No-one's ever really said beyond 'bring the figures down.'
It would make more sense to say, 'We need to allow for xx overseas students and xx people for each of these sectors,' so we can plan ahead.

Alongside that, we need more planning around workforce skills, recruitment, and education. The NHS is a massive employer. It can't be beyond the wit of man to know demand is going up, and this percentage of nurses (for example) will retire in the next five years, so we need to increase nursing places by x amount.

HarrietBond · 28/11/2024 14:16

Cockwomblers · 28/11/2024 14:11

I wish i lived in your idealist world haha

I live in the world of seeing the system pretty much at first hand. Some of the links provided refer to things that were happening 15 years ago and measures have been brought in to address them. If we're going to discuss current immigration figures, can we also discuss current immigration control measures?

ilovesooty · 28/11/2024 14:16

WildCat2877 · 28/11/2024 12:53

they are putting them their until they decide if they are staying or not

So they are not there illegally until their asylum claim is refused.

2dogsandabudgie · 28/11/2024 14:22

ExtraOnions · 28/11/2024 12:17

…so who is going to do the “low skills” jobs that have been filled by migrant labour? Fruit Picking, Factory work, Hospitality etc? (Apologies for the term “low skilled”). Do you have people in your immediate circle who would do these jobs.

You are never going to stop people coming over, we are a nation built in immigration. When it comes to illegal immigration, or asylum seekers etc, we need more staff to process claims.

We have an ageing demographic and need young people.. we should be encouraging them over to make their homes here

The problem is that you can't have overseas workers coming here to do "the jobs that British workers won't do" because then you have cheap foreign labour as well as British people on benefits and it adds to the problem. So you have a foreign worker needing top up benefits as well as a British worker on benefits. It just isn't sustainable.

We need to get out of the mindset of jobs being beneath us and someone should not be able to claim benefits and refuse a job.

RingoJuice · 28/11/2024 14:31

MrsSkylerWhite · 28/11/2024 12:19

This again?

The UK was founded on migration. We need immigrants.

You can make your case for immigration without outright lying

Fluufer · 28/11/2024 14:34

So a few cases, years and years ago. It categorically would not be possible today.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 28/11/2024 14:35

ExtraOnions · 28/11/2024 12:17

…so who is going to do the “low skills” jobs that have been filled by migrant labour? Fruit Picking, Factory work, Hospitality etc? (Apologies for the term “low skilled”). Do you have people in your immediate circle who would do these jobs.

You are never going to stop people coming over, we are a nation built in immigration. When it comes to illegal immigration, or asylum seekers etc, we need more staff to process claims.

We have an ageing demographic and need young people.. we should be encouraging them over to make their homes here

One of the problems is, we just don’t have nearly enough homes for them. We don’t have enough homes for people already here, both natives and immigrants.

lickycat · 28/11/2024 14:36

YABU - the total population in UK is growing by under one percent each year, and the population is aging, Around 40% of the population are over 50, 20% already at retirement age and above. We desperately need younger workers to support our population.

RamblingEclectic · 28/11/2024 14:39

I'm glad it's being talked about, though I'm not sure how to have a productive conversation with how it's been set up over the years.

The previous Tory governments openly stated they treated the immigration system as "for-profit", they brought in over 200 changes to immigration laws - not including fee changes - and "private partners" to handle documents for profit. They brought in Biometric Residence Permits for non-EU migrants that meant people who had indefinite leave to remain lost their right/ability to be legally employed unless they could prove residency going back in some cases decades, inflaming the issue people brought up around dependant migrants who were more at risk of not having the right paperwork. Tories were aware of this (as were Labour who started the push towards the permits), the infrastructure issues, the issues in education with lack of support for English as an additional language, and we're dealing with the consequences.

The UK like other countries will have to deal with the population bulge. Migration may be part of the solution, but it's not the only piece and we can't and shouldn't try to rely on it. We also have many issues in adult education that has been stripped away to pieces that makes retraining difficult. We have issues already mentioned within schools where everyone is meant to be ~ aspirational ~, where apprenticeships are discussed by senior leadership teams as "supported for those who need it" with no idea how the process works, and generally is rubbish at looking at what we really need to help society.

…so who is going to do the “low skills” jobs that have been filled by migrant labour? Fruit Picking, Factory work, Hospitality etc? (Apologies for the term “low skilled”). Do you have people in your immediate circle who would do these jobs.

Yes, many. My British husband works in hospitality. Most of the people he works with are also British. I know plenty of people who work in factories and in nearby agriculture, care homes. It feels odd to assume people here wouldn't have people in their immediate circle who aren't already doing these jobs.

I, the migrant, have never worked in any of these areas. I've been willing to, but never hired for that work. They get a lot of applications where I am.

I loathe when people who claim to support migrants have their main argument be about low-paid work or to deal with the population bulge, like the rest of the world's purpose is to be cogs in the British machine, not people. Not only that, but it erases the significant portion of migrants over the decades who've come on family visas and been family carers for in-laws and then their own families. It erases a significant portion who become unemployed and the issues many face in converting qualifications or spending years out of work, even when highly educated (the latter can actually cause problems as there are some programmes to retrain if you don't have a higher qualification, but if you do, but they aren't really recognised, things get difficult).

Also, the vast majority of migrants are not coming here desperate as many seem to be trying to frame us as. I may have arrived with a couple bags and a few hundred I'd scrounged together, but I had contacts in the UK, there was a plan, if it hadn't worked out, yes I would have returned to my country of origin. That's a fairly normal immigration plan, the idea that we all come with no clue whatsoever does come across as assuming immigrants are all reckless fools. I was a teenager when I arrived, but I wasn't entirely brainless.

Cornettoninja · 28/11/2024 14:40

2dogsandabudgie · 28/11/2024 14:22

The problem is that you can't have overseas workers coming here to do "the jobs that British workers won't do" because then you have cheap foreign labour as well as British people on benefits and it adds to the problem. So you have a foreign worker needing top up benefits as well as a British worker on benefits. It just isn't sustainable.

We need to get out of the mindset of jobs being beneath us and someone should not be able to claim benefits and refuse a job.

Or we could get out of the mindset that it’s perfectly fine for anyone to be employed on a wage that can’t sustain them and needs top up benefits.

personally I think a massive social housing programme would solve 75% of that problem and bring down living costs for the lowest paid.

LlynTegid · 28/11/2024 14:41

HarrietBond · 28/11/2024 14:10

Student visa : Overview - GOV.UK

These are the rules for Student Visas. Claims are usually scrutinised quite closely - it's hard to see how 'fake' universities are fooling people. There's also a requirement for dependents to have access to funds to support themselves.

'Tonnes and tonnes' of people getting around the rules doesn't seem likely.

There are places called universities that I don't think should be.

loulouljh · 28/11/2024 14:42

I agree,

PrinnyPree · 28/11/2024 14:42

You know, I do wonder if anyone has had the genius idea of seeing why so many people are risking life and limb to migrate to other countries by small boats in the first place?

Maybe if we stopped selling so many fucking bombs, propping up tyrants and not giving a fuck if any of our resources are reliant on slave labour to extract or farm them these people wouldn't feel the need to get out of fucking dodge....

So what if you process someone abroad, what are you going to do? Imprison them for migrating? Because they will just come back if you send them to another country that is just as economically or democratically fucked from the ones they are fleeing.

We need to solve these problems abroad first and take some responsibility for our part in creating them.

dottiehens · 28/11/2024 14:46

ExtraOnions · 28/11/2024 12:17

…so who is going to do the “low skills” jobs that have been filled by migrant labour? Fruit Picking, Factory work, Hospitality etc? (Apologies for the term “low skilled”). Do you have people in your immediate circle who would do these jobs.

You are never going to stop people coming over, we are a nation built in immigration. When it comes to illegal immigration, or asylum seekers etc, we need more staff to process claims.

We have an ageing demographic and need young people.. we should be encouraging them over to make their homes here

What about all the people who are already here from the last few years? Are they not supposed to be helping with low skills jobs?

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